Andy Miller III
Cover Image for Juggling for Jesus with Jesse Joyner

Juggling for Jesus with Jesse Joyner

September 15, 2022

Jesse Joiner is a variety performer and he uses his gift of juggling, amongst others, to bring others into a deeper relationship with Jesus.

Youtube -

Audio -

Apple - 

Contender: Going Deeper in the Book of Jude - This all-inclusive small group study on the book of Jude is out now. Check it out on the course page: 

Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching - I’m excited to share some news with you. Recently, I updated this PDF document and added a 45-minute teaching video with slides, explaining this tool. It's like a mini-course. If you sign up for my list, I will send this free resource to you. Sign up here - or Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching.

Today’s episode is brought to you by these two sponsors:
Bill Roberts is a financial advisor, who has been serving the retirement planning and investment needs of individuals, families, non-profits, and churches for 25 years. He is a Certified Financial Planner and accredited investment fiduciary. Bill specializes in working with Salvation Army employees and officers by helping them realize their financial goals. You can find out more about Bill’s business at


Wesley Biblical Seminary - Interested in going deeper in your faith? Check out our certificate programs, B.A., M.A.s, M.Div., and D.Min degrees. You will study with world-class faculty and the most racially diverse student body in the country.
Thanks too to Phil Laeger for the new podcast music. You can find out about Phil's music at


Welcome to the more to the story. Podcast. I am glad that you are here, and i'm excited by this show is one of the most distinct shows. Unique fun shows. I think we're going to have in a long time, so i'm excited to introduce our guest to you in just a second. But before I do that, I want to make sure you know about a few things. First of all, this podcast comes to you from Wesley Biblical Seminary, where we are training trusted leaders for

00:00:41.030 --> 00:00:49.790
faithful churches, and that happens through a variety of programs through undergraduate graduate degrees and doctor of Ministry program.

00:00:49.800 --> 00:01:10.959
Andy Miller III: Just in the month of September we are starting our Wesley Institute, which is a lay initiative, which is nine months of in depth, teaching in two tracks. One is in the Bible, and one is in theology. We walks through every book of the Bible and major theological topics with seminary professors working through this, we would love for you to invest in. This. This is a great important program called

00:01:10.970 --> 00:01:17.689
Andy Miller III: Wesley Institute, and you can find out more about that at our website at Wbs, Ed. You

00:01:17.700 --> 00:01:47.459
Andy Miller III: and also i'm thankful for Bill Roberts, who's a financial planner who sponsors this podcast. You can find out more about him and his ministry the way God has led him to serve people by thinking about their retirements and planning for that. Well, you can find him at William H. Roberts, Dot Com, and you can find a link for that in my show notes. And finally, the last thing I want to make sure people know is that my study of Jude, called contender, is out, and as people are getting ready for, like all Bible studies, maybe your small group has come back

00:01:47.470 --> 00:02:10.189
Andy Miller III: together for this season after the summer. This is a six session series on the Book of Jude those twenty five verses It has over five hours of content Discussion guides. It's just like set up for your small group or your Sunday school class I love for you to check that out, so you can go to my website at Andy Miller Iii. Dot com.

00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:21.560
Jesse Joyner: So here we are today's show. I am so glad to welcome into the podcast, my friend. We went to seminary together. Jesse Joiner Jesse. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Andy is so good to be here.

00:02:21.570 --> 00:02:30.860
Andy Miller III: Well, it's good to see you again. I don't know if we've seen each other since we were in Wilmore, Kentucky. But I've seen you online. And here's part of why I've seen you online.

00:02:30.870 --> 00:03:00.109
Andy Miller III: My daughter this summer went to Summer camp, and Jesse is a variety performer as a part of his ministry and calling. He is a juggler, and amongst other things that he does as well. But he's no just average juggler who's just going around as a variety of performer. He's a juggler, juggler, scholar as he just complete his Phd. In the last year or so, looking at the vocational direction that people have as variety performers. So, Jesse, this is a high

00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:14.190
Andy Miller III: on top of that. He's also an adjunct professor at a cent seminary, so he teaches um on youth, discipleship, and New Testament courses. There, suggested man. It is really a treat to have you done a lot since we last saw each of it.

00:03:14.200 --> 00:03:28.260
Jesse Joyner: I haven't used. Well, yeah, it's It's exciting to to see your base again. You age. Well, you you look very similar to you twenty years ago. Well, the the gray hair in my beer. It doesn't make me feel that way. But there you go.

00:03:28.270 --> 00:03:31.329
Jesse Joyner: You, too, you, too, Jessie.

00:03:31.340 --> 00:04:00.189
Jesse Joyner: I'm interested now. I knew like. I remember being in Seminary, and I remember seeing you juggle there, and I knew you were serving a youth ministry that have been your church. I think that. And I remember knowing that that was your passion. And there were things about your life that stood out to me like you were one of the first people I saw like even in seminary practicing a Sabbath like I was. I always knew there was something to think about you. But tell me, did you, immediately after seminary go into juggling, or in a variety of performing?

00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:24.489
Jesse Joyner: I did it. It's funny just hearing you kind of talk about that historical trajectory for my life. It it was something I was like. I was interested in jumping. That is, as early as middle school like I was okay to do it as an eleven-year-old when my friend could do it. So I wanted to learn what my friend could do, and uh and it stuck, and I practiced, and I got better, and it it was one of those hobbies that just grew in Red Room because I was so

00:04:24.500 --> 00:04:31.629
Jesse Joyner: fascinated by juggling in particular, and I eventually learned how to perform it, and and I didn't know that it

00:04:31.660 --> 00:04:35.989
Jesse Joyner: twenty, thirty years into the future of my life. I was still going to be doing it, but

00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:42.610
Jesse Joyner: and and that that just happened to be the Catholic, or it took me down that not much has changed

00:04:42.620 --> 00:05:03.590
Jesse Joyner: of the things that I am that I enjoy, and that i'm passionate about ever since I was eleven, twelve years old, and and for that i'm very grateful. Um. But But yes, that has. That has been the main thing I have been doing since coming right out of Seminary Back with you back in. I graduated from Asbury.

00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:04.090
Andy Miller III: Yeah,

00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:22.719
Jesse Joyner: and I was. I was at one of those That's ah, that's a crossroads point for a lot of center and graduates, you know. You graduate, and you figure well. I followed this because I felt call to ministry and and you that now it's like, What what do I do with this? Where do I go next? And so I was at that crossroads. Like many others,

00:05:22.750 --> 00:05:29.000
Jesse Joyner: I I applied to a few churches to maybe work on staff at a church, and I

00:05:29.010 --> 00:05:44.690
Jesse Joyner: I was interviewing with a church in Cairo, Egypt, and in rural Illinois I mean. I was because I was interested in children's ministry. So a lot of churches then, and now are still. They're always looking for children.

00:05:44.700 --> 00:05:57.429
Jesse Joyner: It's a big need out there. Um! So I I considered that path, but I also had this door open where I had met someone at a Children's Ministry Conference, who who basically

00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:05.589
Jesse Joyner: you know books, entertainers at Christian outreach events, and It's an organization called for his kids,

00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:13.249
Jesse Joyner: and they have a roster of entertainers who are Christians, who many of us have a

00:06:13.270 --> 00:06:30.260
Jesse Joyner: some sort of a message or an evangelistic, you know, vent to the content of our entertaining. So you have magicians and jugglers and clowns whatever doing an act, but at the same time. It's, maybe at an evangelistic event

00:06:30.270 --> 00:06:42.099
Jesse Joyner: that the act is done in a way that tells the story of the Gospel, or it tells a story from the Bible it doesn't have to be. I don't think good good art or good performing has to have

00:06:42.110 --> 00:07:00.369
Jesse Joyner: a particular Biblical message explicitly, and that's all other discussion. But there's a lot of events that is their focus. And I had put together by that time in my life a program of a juggling show that

00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:17.829
Jesse Joyner: walked through the story of the Gospel, using the juggling as object lessons and object illustrations, and found out that a lot of people, a lot of churches were very interested in seeing what that was, and you know, using it as an opportunity to reach out to their community.

00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:42.389
Jesse Joyner: So yeah, all that to say that when I met for his kids at this conference that was another door that I was praying about like, is this is this: But you know an avenue or follow, and by the time I graduated I I felt the Lord leading me in that direction. And so I said I, and it was a leap of faith, as you say. Well, okay, I want to take this this path of being under. Ah, someone who entertains that events, for

00:07:42.400 --> 00:07:56.990
Jesse Joyner: you know one time events. You're essentially you're kind of like you're. You're self-employed there's no guarantees. There's no, you're not employed by anyone it's. It's. More of a independent thing, and you have to do Your everything is on faith that it's all going to work out.

00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:04.520
Jesse Joyner: So I took that leap of faith. I felt like God was leading me in that direction, and they sent me to a church in Florida

00:08:04.530 --> 00:08:12.839
and some vacation Bible school, I think, in the summer, and I and I did some messages for the kids, and I did my juggling act, and it was,

00:08:13.090 --> 00:08:25.390
Jesse Joyner: I think, well received, and I enjoyed it, and that was that that was the beginning of my relationship with for his kids like, I guess I guess the the feedback from that church was, You know,

00:08:25.400 --> 00:08:42.719
Jesse Joyner: this guy's not a terrible that works. So they they kept voting me at other events, and it just grew where I started, being able to speak at many week long summer camps serving as they can't pass through a week.

00:08:42.799 --> 00:09:00.280
Jesse Joyner: That was exciting because it's not. It's not just a one, and done try it. I get to spend a whole week with the campers and teach through the Bible or the theme of the week. Teach them memory versus and i'm all along the way. I'm using juggling and other kinds of tricks to engage the

00:09:00.290 --> 00:09:10.389
Jesse Joyner: the kids, and that's the language they speak. You know they speak the language of fun. So it's a way to interact with people.

00:09:10.420 --> 00:09:17.960
Jesse Joyner: Okay, let me stop you. I want to come by now. So okay, you speak the language of fun.

00:09:18.110 --> 00:09:25.569
Jesse Joyner: That sounds like something you've thought of. You've thought through what that means. Yeah, Like when you engage Kit. And this might be helpful for anybody

00:09:25.710 --> 00:09:34.089
Jesse Joyner: working with kids, any any type of youth, and you know, honestly like adults, right? But by the language of fun,

00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:35.520
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. So

00:09:36.230 --> 00:09:49.980
Jesse Joyner: mean we've all been kids before we, you know if you're walking on this earth. Most of us remember. I know that you know many people have

00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:54.750
Jesse Joyner: hard childhoods, you know traumatic events in their childhood.

00:09:54.800 --> 00:09:58.180
Jesse Joyner: Even even so, I think we all still eat,

00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:00.800
Jesse Joyner: whether you had a great childhood or not.

00:10:00.810 --> 00:10:20.990
Jesse Joyner: We all understand that, being a child, there's something about that time of our lives. That is, there's something fun about it, or something amazing about it. And even if your whole world as a child was not fun, there's still a hope There, I think there's still a dream that yeah, yeah, that that something out there is better.

00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:38.069
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, yeah, that maybe what i'm experiencing right now in my life. You know a lot of these kids that come to camp. They're they're They're coming from very difficult, you know. Maybe home life, situations and and things going on in their lives and in their worlds. So

00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:48.389
Jesse Joyner: you know, juggling or something fun. It helps kind of bring hope. It helps open up their eyes to something that can maybe distract them from.

00:10:48.400 --> 00:10:59.519
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, whether it be the mundane or the dark that that's around them in their lives like juggling, and other things can bring joy. They can bring bite, they can bring fun. And as children.

00:10:59.530 --> 00:11:05.049
Yeah, Again, we, I think we all understand the language of fun as children. Jesus saw it, too, when He,

00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:08.340
Jesse Joyner: the disciples, wanted to shoot the children away.

00:11:08.350 --> 00:11:14.690
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, when when the people were bringing children in Jesus. And he said, Now let the little children come to me.

00:11:14.700 --> 00:11:31.389
Jesse Joyner: But there's It's the kingdom of them, you know. So there's something about that like kind of like the argument from desire that authors attributed to Cs. Lewis that we we long for something else. And yeah, we we want that type of joy. And if that's in us like that's meant to be fulfilled if it's not fulfilled

00:11:31.400 --> 00:11:46.219
Jesse Joyner: absolutely. And I think I think kids might have that a little stronger than us, and that's why Jesus told us to have faith like them. There, there's something about them that that has more faith and more hope that than us adults. We've kind of

00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:56.289
Jesse Joyner: it's worn off a little bit in our lives, and so we need to keep looking back to the children to to learn what it means to have fun to have hope, have faith and those kinds of things.

00:11:56.300 --> 00:11:56.890
Jesse Joyner: Yeah.

00:11:56.900 --> 00:12:07.589
Andy Miller III: Now I I had an opportunity to look at your doctoral dissertation, and I found it fascinating, and I didn't this isn't one of the quotes that I copied and paste for my own notes for this. But

00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:24.670
Jesse Joyner: you quoted somebody who talked about the the reality of like sometimes in performers, and this might have been a section like I was talking about the philosophy behind circus arts in, but that it pushes to danger and darkness.

00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:41.489
Jesse Joyner: You just brought up darkness when you, when I asked you, come to expound on that, and I thought that was interesting. But there, there's something like that. As kids enter into this language of fun, it also includes the reality of a world that might not always work out. Do you know what i'm talking about when I was to talk about

00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:59.969
Jesse Joyner: So So So if you study like circus historians and people who studied circus. One of the primary definitions of circus out there is. It includes an element of either, you know, danger or risk of life, and

00:12:59.980 --> 00:13:07.880
Jesse Joyner: like. That's what That's what makes the circus the circus. And if you think about it, I think about all the certain shows, maybe you've ever seen or heard about or seen on Tv.

00:13:07.890 --> 00:13:26.289
Jesse Joyner: It's it's the lion tamers, the tyro walkers, the the people that ride, the motorcycles in the big sphere. It's the acrobats. It's people that are flipping through the air, and if they if they fall they can die. I mean it's it. It really is. The circus really is. People risking their life for the entertainment of other people.

00:13:26.300 --> 00:13:37.290
Jesse Joyner: That's what makes the circus. There's really nothing else out there in the world That kind of defines itself by those terms. And here's again Why, I think there's a connection to children here.

00:13:37.300 --> 00:13:52.170
Jesse Joyner: Yes, okay, children, their Their their bodies are growing up. They're clumsy. They're still learning how to little children are still learning how to walk. You know they're learning how to keep their balance. They're learning how to

00:13:52.180 --> 00:14:08.790
Jesse Joyner: being agile and coordinating with their hands and with their legs and with their their eyes and their ears. They're still as children that even as adults were clumsy. Still, too like we're all still learning. But but again, kids are really, you know, they struggle daily with

00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:28.660
Jesse Joyner: those developmental things and the circus. It gives you two things. The circus gives children and adults these two things It shows you, these people with seemingly superhero powers, right like a tightrope, or even juggling seven rings, or whatever these look like superhero powers in it. In some way it sparks

00:14:28.670 --> 00:14:31.890
Jesse Joyner: it's sparked some sort of hope, I believe Amen,

00:14:31.900 --> 00:14:39.289
Jesse Joyner: that there is something better out there that there is that you can do the impossible. You know. It kind of shows you that

00:14:39.300 --> 00:14:52.089
Jesse Joyner: that's on one side of the coin, the other side of the coin are the clowns. When the clowns come in during the circus they come in between the acts of superhuman feats.

00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:59.890
Jesse Joyner: You, the lion tamer, you have the lion tamer do an act. And i'm saying, that's kind of old-fashioned to say, Yeah, yeah,

00:14:59.900 --> 00:15:01.989
it highlights the danger

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:07.390
Jesse Joyner: right? Yeah, reality is just in the past we'd use the animals. The circuses are thankfully you're moving away from the the

00:15:07.400 --> 00:15:24.350
Jesse Joyner: you know exploitation. That's a whole other discussion, too. I like, I think that was the the decline of Railing brothers and the increase of searches Delay one of the big. They're very interesting. Yes, the animals sick like ringling focus. So it's It's a It doesn't Use it.

00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:35.120
Jesse Joyner: Yeah,

00:15:35.130 --> 00:15:55.949
Jesse Joyner: they'll do an act very next thing clowns come out and the clowns will will walk on A. You know Don't pretend to be a type of walker, and they'll stand on something That's two inches tall, and you know a foot wide, and they'll do this, and then they'll tip over and fall like to pretend that they just can't do it.

00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:05.239
Jesse Joyner: And what that does is it? It brings relief to the audience and the children especially. It brings relief to the audience to say, Oh,

00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:21.989
Jesse Joyner: there's someone who relates to me in this show, and that's the clown. The clown relates to me because the clown, I can't do it, but neither can the clown and and that's funny you know like, because, like the the clown is self-deprecating. The clown is Ah, could I say incarnational

00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:34.809
Jesse Joyner: right like the cl the clown is connecting to the ah, you know a child in a and the the audience-membered, powerful way, and and to to extend on that idea of incarnational I mean

00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:53.600
Jesse Joyner: like Jesus What Jesus did Was was foolishness like dying on him dying on the cross. That was foolishness to those. It was weakness to what? To the Greek, and it was foolishness to the Jews right, because they were looking for. They were looking for some wise philosopher or some superhero,

00:16:53.610 --> 00:17:04.990
Jesse Joyner: you know, to save the day from their own. But what Jesus did Dynamic cross was both foolishness and weakness in the eyes of the

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.389
Jesse Joyner: right. You know. Paul. Paul says it himself, but

00:17:08.990 --> 00:17:19.129
Jesse Joyner: that is like the strength of God. It's like as so. So what Jesus did was very much, I believe, like a boss clown.

00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:39.799
Jesse Joyner: Ah, I can say it that way. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I love this, and you and I both, I think, had ah significant. We were in the same class, but we were both influenced by Ellsworth, callous, and for me, like I'm just in now, in part because I teach preaching. I think about it more.

00:17:39.810 --> 00:17:45.679
Andy Miller III: But he was so insistent on there being a storyline

00:17:45.880 --> 00:18:01.650
Jesse Joyner: pension and release, and of course, for him. He wants all that to be seen in the title of the sermon that governs no idea right and done without notes, too. That's another story. But nevertheless, like there's this. There's this direction within

00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:15.959
Jesse Joyner: the plot like there has to be. A plot implies this direction, and I would have never until this minute thought about the circus demonstrating those contours.

00:18:16.080 --> 00:18:27.889
Jesse Joyner: Now what is it? Um, when you think about the way that that it gets expressed in your act now, So you're not. You're not a full circus. You don't have a

00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:39.690
Jesse Joyner: yeah. Ah, you're not a lion tamer and a clown, but as A, and I know you do more than just juggle. But tell me about that like how that works. Its way out in your particular gifting or your

00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:45.170
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, that's actually a really good question. And I have. I have tried to

00:18:45.330 --> 00:19:02.020
Jesse Joyner: navigate that as a one-man show over the years and in it I think it's taken a few turns here and there, even as I've grown and learned, and develops this whole narrative piece of storytelling and the performing arts. So

00:19:02.100 --> 00:19:22.039
Jesse Joyner: I do a little bit of both in my own show, like I do a little bit of both the if you want to call it showing off, you know it's there's a famous juggler in the book called The Art of Showing Off. You know It's like, I think it's Dan Boltzmann, if I want to give it to you,

00:19:22.050 --> 00:19:25.380
Jesse Joyner: but it's the um.

00:19:25.470 --> 00:19:42.450
Jesse Joyner: There's parts of my show where I am demonstrating the juggling skills that I have, so so i'll jump on the shades, or i'll balance the sixty, five or i'll I'll juggle chainsaws, you know, like all my kids are all juggle six items, six rings, and those are. Those are thrilling, and they're fun to do.

00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:57.879
Jesse Joyner: But intermittently i'll take the audience on a journey where i'll either either pretend like I can't do it, you know, and especially if there's little kids in the crowd, you know, if you after or fall or stumble of yourself in an attempt to do this amazing feat.

00:19:57.890 --> 00:20:10.580
Jesse Joyner: Um, that's really. That's where you get laps. And And honestly, the connection they feel human, you know, like they feel like i'm a few minutes, and we're all okay, You know we're we're kind of together in this.

00:20:10.590 --> 00:20:26.490
Jesse Joyner: And so so I do both like I do both like successful. You know, feats of juggling, but I also do parts where I'm. Kind of pretending to mess up so that, and it helps them. Relate to me now the benefit that is performer is that

00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:30.790
Jesse Joyner: I can legitimately mess up or drop, which happens sometimes.

00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:33.820
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. And uh, it's been.

00:20:33.830 --> 00:20:51.690
Jesse Joyner: Sometimes the audio keeps the audience guessing like, Did he mean to do that, or didn't ride, and I just try to let them, you know as a performer I can just let me guess, you know, like. Maybe I did. Maybe I didn't. And other times like, when I drop i'll just look at the audience and and i'll say, well,

00:20:51.700 --> 00:20:52.290
Jesse Joyner: yeah,

00:20:52.300 --> 00:20:54.589
Jesse Joyner: you can't boo me because you can't do it.

00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:56.289
Jesse Joyner: Um,

00:20:57.700 --> 00:21:16.089
Jesse Joyner: It's okay. I would have some like juggling questions I want to ask at some point, but going back to if I remember you having like pollen, I remember sitting in the library. This is totally dating both of us here. So excuse me, but you know we got good, solid Internet at the library.

00:21:16.100 --> 00:21:28.889
Jesse Joyner: Oh, yeah. So like we would sit. We often like be sitting there together. And I remember you pulling out, Yeah. So I juggle. I just one of things I do in that. Yeah. But you I don't like, How do you move to how you move on a place of

00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:48.810
Jesse Joyner: kind of like in the juggle in high school and college seminary, to being able to do a full show. When did you make that pivot to being able to, because you had that in your back pocket when you got with for his kids. I'm curious about that. How do you make that transition.

00:21:48.870 --> 00:21:57.660
Jesse Joyner: Okay, So I I do have to give credit to like the church environment which I was raised. It was.

00:21:57.670 --> 00:22:24.999
Jesse Joyner: It was a church environment that was heavy on the fine arts. Okay, the things like music and choir and the performing arts. They were all kind of held up as a as a way to worship. You know, like we we worship God. You know that the the arts is one way in which we simply reflect God's glory back to Him as image bears. And yeah, he is expressing,

00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:34.899
Jesse Joyner: You know, truth, beauty, and goodness through music, art, drama, and juggling, whatever it might be, whatever guests and talents that we have all been handed.

00:22:34.910 --> 00:23:04.879
Jesse Joyner: So it was a church that encouraged that, and and taught that, and acted it out. So it was. It was a larger church that I grew up in, and so it would put on like a big ah Easter production every year, like like a dramatization of first century. You know Jerusalem, and and that the Easter story, and the same thing at Christmas time. It's a playoff, and it to be with like live camels and flying angels with the harnesses from the ceiling. All that stuff and it was. It was like big production number kind of stuff where they had. They had a big bi,

00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:15.999
Jesse Joyner: the costumes and we had, you know, hours and hours of rehearsals, so that and that's just all I knew was, you know,

00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:22.459
Jesse Joyner: arts and performing arts and being on stage like that that was just kind of. I was thrust into that environment.

00:23:22.470 --> 00:23:43.090
Jesse Joyner: I was inquire all through school myself, and traveled with choirs and um Music was a big part of my life. So, playing piano, singing, I was in a barber shop for Ted with this kid, and I. We traveled with competitions. It was ah being on stage was just something. I was all I grew up on stage. I guess I could say,

00:23:43.100 --> 00:23:52.549
Jesse Joyner: okay. My parents always saw that in me, too. My parents always said that I never knew a stranger. I was just the out that you're comfortable on stage, and you.

00:23:53.920 --> 00:24:12.829
Jesse Joyner: Meanwhile, while i'm living this church life of ah performing arts, I'm. Also living in a parallel life of learning how to juggle and going to juggling festivals like, okay, not not Christian beam or anything. This is like the the the greater wire world of

00:24:12.840 --> 00:24:18.379
Jesse Joyner: it's called the International Jugglers Association, The Ija. They have an annual festival every year, with

00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:34.490
Jesse Joyner: hundreds to thousands of jugglers, whatever whatever number of people show up. But they have in different cities around the country each year, and that's for some of the best chillers in North America. And now the world will converge, and you you meet one another, and they have competitions and workshops and

00:24:35.110 --> 00:24:38.889
Jesse Joyner: all sorts of things. So I went to a lot of those,

00:24:38.900 --> 00:24:42.389
Jesse Joyner: and I would compete in some of the competitions. And

00:24:42.400 --> 00:25:04.820
Jesse Joyner: um, and it, you know, met a lot. I made a lot of friends that that I still have to this day, and it's at those conventions that I really learned like. I guess you could say the art of performing the skill of juggling like you. Can. You can have the skill of juggling. Anyone can can read the juggling for the complete Clutt's book, you know, or you know, these these mass-produced juggling books up there,

00:25:04.830 --> 00:25:20.949
Jesse Joyner: or watching on Youtube. You can you can learn how to juggle. That's one thing, but it's a whole other thing to learn how to how to be a performer of juggling. And okay what it means to to carry an audience through a forty five minute. Act all by your side of

00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:31.719
Jesse Joyner: whatever it is, whatever your personality is as a performer, whether it's humor or you know, virtuoso skill sets, or a little bit of both. You know you kind of

00:25:32.010 --> 00:25:50.450
Jesse Joyner: jugglers and other related um. You know variety performers. We have to write our own stuff usually, and put together our own content and create, you know, out of nothing something that is of enjoyable service to audiences, and you just find that sometimes, by trial and error,

00:25:50.460 --> 00:26:06.260
Jesse Joyner: and and being in the community of people that do it. So it was that, being around that community. People did it that I got to learn and see others how to do it, but also, and I learned this in my dissertation when I interviewed other variety performers to grow in this kind of location. One

00:26:06.350 --> 00:26:08.729
Jesse Joyner: you really have to just grind it out, and

00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:29.670
Jesse Joyner: at the beginning especially, just show up and do as many shows as you can, for whoever will have you for however much pay, even if nothing you know that's how most of us get our start is, I think a lot of musicians are like that, too. You just you show up at any bar or a restaurant that has, you know people sitting in the chairs.

00:26:29.850 --> 00:26:45.189
Jesse Joyner: You perform your acts, and you do it for the love of the act. At first you know that it grows and develop as a performer, and eventually hopefully, if you're passionate about it. Enough that it's recall you'll get good enough that people will start inviting you.

00:26:45.320 --> 00:26:58.690
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, They' to come. Do it for them, and, by God's grace, maybe make a living from it. If that's how the you know the journey plays out that God has.

00:26:58.700 --> 00:27:02.890
Andy Miller III: Well, let me ask you a couple of juggling questions, and then i'll get back to your story and then to dissertation.

00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:10.669
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, I'm. Really. So what is your What's your kind of like, most virtuosic

00:27:10.870 --> 00:27:13.490
Andy Miller III: act, or or I or not actor

00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:18.339
Jesse Joyner: trick? I'm: Sorry. I want to use like appropriate words.

00:27:18.350 --> 00:27:19.289
Jesse Joyner: I understand.

00:27:19.300 --> 00:27:27.390
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, or what do you? What have you worked on and like? What? What? Yeah, I'm: curious. Can you mention like the chainsaws?

00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:41.190
Jesse Joyner: I was about to say, the chain size. That's usually the first thing on people's minds when they find out. I'm i'm a juggler. They usually ask me two questions like if a stranger meets me on a plane or something, you know. But how'd you get into that? And can you trouble chase us? And

00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.089
Andy Miller III: oh, really And so I I never even heard of it till right now.

00:27:44.100 --> 00:27:47.090
Jesse Joyner: Oh, yeah, Everybody wants to know if you trouble with chain size. And

00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:51.989
Jesse Joyner: there there was a famous performer, Albert Lucas. He was a famous juggler.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:52.590
Andy Miller III: Um, Okay,

00:27:52.600 --> 00:28:08.380
Jesse Joyner: And especially, I think, back in the eighty S. He was real big. He would do the the performing on ice, you know, like an ice skater, and he would juggle, and he would do fire, and he would do chain size. He was, I think, he was one of the ones that popularized the the

00:28:08.620 --> 00:28:11.840
Jesse Joyner: What do you? What do you call it? The um,

00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:18.389
Jesse Joyner: the myth that everybody has in their mind of the great, you know, Chainsaw juggler.

00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:28.510
Jesse Joyner: There may have been others before him. I I have to ask a friend of mine, David Kane. He's a historical, a historian on jugglers, he would know better than me, but from my memory I think Albert Lucas

00:28:28.520 --> 00:28:44.940
Jesse Joyner: popularized the idea of chainsaw jumpers. So ever since then a lot of people when they hear about jugglers. They want to know what the change does. So I would get that question a lot. Years ago it's It actually bothered me that I said no. And whenever people would ask me that, it kind of bothered me like, you know.

00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:46.100
Jesse Joyner: Ah,

00:28:46.110 --> 00:28:49.289
Jesse Joyner: I don't want to let these people down. Yeah, sure.

00:28:49.300 --> 00:28:54.589
Jesse Joyner: So I started looking. I'm sorry. The total ignorance if you turn the chainsaws on, do you?

00:28:54.600 --> 00:29:04.340
Yeah. So So I started looking on the market myself for chainsaws that were small enough. That weren't like, you know, big heavy. I didn't I I physically can't juggle, you know.

00:29:04.350 --> 00:29:30.170
Jesse Joyner: Thirty inch bar chain sars right? So I looked on the market for something that was, you know, weight wise, and I found these battery- operated ones like nowadays with these big lithium Ion batteries with on hand tools. I found some battery power chain size. It's a legit chain, and it cuts wood, and I bought three of them, and they're light enough.

00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:37.090
Jesse Joyner: I Jerry, right to them. I added a a dal rod like I screwed a dal rod to them, so I can pull the dal rods.

00:29:37.100 --> 00:29:37.890
Jesse Joyner: Okay,

00:29:37.900 --> 00:29:56.770
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, but but I I didn't Jerry rig it so that they're inoperable. I just made it so I can. You know It's the air, using using the dollar as but the whole chainsaw is still there, and it's on, and the chain is on, and I I can cut, you know a two by four, with all three of them, and then and then trouble them away, and I

00:29:56.780 --> 00:30:00.990
Jesse Joyner: and I've done it. I practiced it without them on first,

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:12.700
Jesse Joyner: Okay, and then I practiced it with them on, and I would step back out of the way and let him fall on the grass. If I got too scared. But you know I've only lost one finger,

00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:23.809
Jesse Joyner: anyway. Yeah, but it's so. It's okay. You're getting their jokes on me. It's okay. I have some standard jokes, too, that one worked well. Yeah. But now I can say that I've done it, and

00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:34.369
Jesse Joyner: it's it's My! So what's the most virtuous thing that might be one. I I also I just love jumping rings like those big, you know, plastic rings. They just look really

00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:49.869
Jesse Joyner: stunning. I enjoy watching other people juggle rains, and so I enjoy watching the rings fly above my head like a bunch of plants in orbit or something. It's just really cool, so I can juggle up to seven of those. That's fun to just

00:30:50.410 --> 00:31:07.840
Jesse Joyner: get him up here and juggle It's that's what got me into it. In the first place, it's the personal enjoyment.

00:31:07.850 --> 00:31:26.989
Jesse Joyner: Do stuff because we love it, and we're passionate about it ends if it brings joy and passion to other people too. Then that's wonderful, and we'll do it for for others, because it's something you can share with the world. So it's interesting as you're saying. You describe that moment where you can see them fly above your head.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:39.120
Jesse Joyner: There's something amazing about the reality of our consciousness that is incredibly powerful, while i'm preaching often while words are coming out of my mouth.

00:31:39.310 --> 00:31:43.990
Andy Miller III: I do find when I'm, you know, prepared enough

00:31:44.350 --> 00:32:01.250
Jesse Joyner: real satisfaction in in the kind of like the Eric little type of comment, the pleasure of the Lord when i'm preaching. But it's amazing me that there are. There are moments where I can think about my preaching while i'm preaching,

00:32:01.260 --> 00:32:17.649
Andy Miller III: and and and other things too, like every now and then that can happen with music. I wish I could say it happened with sports, but it was never really that good and good enough at it, but nevertheless, like there's something about like i'm saying words now, and i'm thinking about how enjoyable this is, or i'm thinking about

00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:25.239
Andy Miller III: the person on the front row, or the back row, or something like that. And in thinking about you like, while you're in the midst of

00:32:25.250 --> 00:32:25.990
Andy Miller III: I mean

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:36.570
Jesse Joyner: juggling. Yeah, like you're you're thinking about like this is a beautiful thing. I mean, it truly is a ah Ah, that you. You have the opportunity to participate in

00:32:36.580 --> 00:32:44.889
Jesse Joyner: that hearing. You say what you're saying. The thing that comes to my mind is that it's about chaos and order. I mean, yeah, sure.

00:32:44.900 --> 00:33:03.919
Jesse Joyner: There's something very satisfying about bringing order out of chaos, and that's what God does, you know He brings order out of the chaos of our lives in this world, and you know juggling is because of gravity and because of human clonesiness.

00:33:03.970 --> 00:33:05.400
Jesse Joyner: Jelly.

00:33:05.610 --> 00:33:29.879
Jesse Joyner: If you just throw things up in the air. That's chaos, right? Yeah, sure. But if you can somehow learn a skill or learn the skill of like throwing them at the right times in a pattern, and catching them and repeating it over and over again. When you learn that skill you are bringing order to chaos, and when you get to do it with your own hands and see it happening in front of you. It is,

00:33:29.890 --> 00:33:41.439
Jesse Joyner: It is like you said it's like I feel the Lord's pleasure. I feel his pleasure. Um! When you, when you get to be a part of that bringing order out of chaos, and

00:33:41.450 --> 00:34:07.399
Jesse Joyner: and we we all use juggling as a metaphor in our lives all the time. I hear people say it all the time like jelling their family or their schedule work, or whatever it is, we're all jugglers, and that maybe that's why people also like juggling. Because you're seeing you're seeing a a physical literal manifestation of what we all said deep down inside. In our own lives, in our own world we all feel

00:34:07.410 --> 00:34:23.300
Jesse Joyner: clumsy, and that we can't fight against gravity, and we can't keep everything in order. So when you see a jeller, maybe it is a spark of hope that, like oh, there is hope in the world. It might be possible that my life, could,

00:34:23.310 --> 00:34:52.640
Jesse Joyner: you know, could have more word than the chaos that I feel right now, because i'm watching this corner, and I don't know, Jesse, that is good. It like I love how you bring that in, like even like the idea of the circus, and what draws us to the circus when strong people do circus throughout this century, and then, even with juggling, too, like I haven't thought about it. Why is it? But but that's it like There's there's something to that that connects us to a bigger story. Now, i'm interested to to know what is it? Ah, when you go to these International

00:34:52.650 --> 00:35:04.490
Jesse Joyner: ah juggling associations. And there's yeah competitions. What is the extreme like? Who is What is the Michael Jordan or a Lebron? James of juggling doing like you? Okay, We're all going to get in here and see this.

00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:05.589
Jesse Joyner: Yeah,

00:35:05.600 --> 00:35:10.969
Jesse Joyner: I mean by first of all, juggling has that the skills of juggling have just

00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:29.589
Jesse Joyner: exploded since I was a teenager. When I was going to a lot of conventions I used to go to. But what what used to be

00:35:29.600 --> 00:35:36.289
Jesse Joyner: amazing amazing stuff and virtuoso stuff back in the eightys and ninetys is now just standard

00:35:36.370 --> 00:35:55.280
Jesse Joyner: stuff. Now, and the skill sets are just mind-blowing like when I watch these Youtube videos or Instagram feeds of great jugglers out there. They're just doing mind blowing things, and it's exciting for the art of job to see people pushing the limits and exploring the boundaries of the

00:35:55.290 --> 00:35:58.599
Jesse Joyner: the human possibilities of what we can.

00:35:59.930 --> 00:36:12.169
Jesse Joyner: Some of it is, it's not necessarily, and found in the sheer numbers like the there is there. There is something called numbers juggling, where people try to break against what world records of how many objects keeping there at once. And

00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:38.139
Jesse Joyner: honestly, I forget what the kind of record is. I think it's close to twelve or thirteen, you know, in terms of like either either what's called a flash or a jungle. A flash is when you just get you. You throw them all up, and you catch them in order. It's it's, it's it's one rotation of a pattern a junk is. You can get all those objects in, you know, through the pattern twice, so that that would be like juggling twelve balls for twenty catches.

00:36:38.150 --> 00:36:49.410
Jesse Joyner: But there's multiple jugglers that can handle a juggle nine, even ten objects. When you get into eleven, twelve and thirteen, and above you get into the

00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:52.689
Jesse Joyner: rarefied air, you know.

00:36:52.700 --> 00:36:57.520
Jesse Joyner: So that's that's like numbers, wise. But then you're I.

00:36:57.640 --> 00:37:12.989
Jesse Joyner: Yes, but then you also have like um like artistic juggling. So you have this. It's kind of like performance juggling. They're not so worried about the the skills of like how many objects you can juggle, but they're more worried about like the visual,

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:28.920
Jesse Joyner: the visual presentation of So if you see some of this, it almost looks like ballet or the art of movement with objects, and they might only have one or two objects, maybe three, but they're rolling rolling pins around their arms,

00:37:28.930 --> 00:37:45.860
Jesse Joyner: flopping the mind back in it. Then it it looks very. It's more like a dance with the objects, and some people call it flow movements, and they'll use other things that flow and move, and

00:37:45.870 --> 00:38:01.089
Jesse Joyner: there's many props out there that jugglers will use to kind of express our art in different ways.

00:38:01.100 --> 00:38:04.590
Jesse Joyner: This is where you need the video folks go to watch on Tv.

00:38:04.600 --> 00:38:06.229
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, So do that again.

00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:26.650
Jesse Joyner: Well, yeah, I mean, i'm actually not a very good contact triller. But it's It's where you rolled a ball, And if if anyone saw the uh, the movie, the like, they they have him, like, you know, roll rolling the balls through his hands like this. It's actually not him. It's another. It's a famous job.

00:38:26.660 --> 00:38:43.069
Jesse Joyner: Um, but you can. You kind of roll the ball in your hand, and you can. Some people can do it very quickly. You know I I do mostly the toss juggling. That's what I focus on. Toss joining more than contact travelling, or other types. But you also have it. You have also

00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:56.649
Jesse Joyner: everything from what's called the diablo. It's like a Chinese yo-yo. Yes, Yeah. Flower sticks or double sticks. You've got scar boxes three kind of manipulate them midair into different positions, and

00:38:56.690 --> 00:39:05.310
Jesse Joyner: an endless number of other kinds of props that are even coming out more and more of flow props and juggling props that

00:39:05.710 --> 00:39:10.189
Jesse Joyner: variety artists you write performers use. I forget the original question that

00:39:10.200 --> 00:39:23.189
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, that's good. I always want to know what What's the what's the kind of like Lebron, James, Michael Jordan. But I think you got there. Everybody wants to to see what they're doing, maybe getting up to twelve for thirteen. And that type of thing.

00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:36.339
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. Okay. So i'm interested as you're able to work through this with you, you've developed this skill. You've been picked up. You're working with for his kids. Then, you know, this becomes your

00:39:36.350 --> 00:39:48.879
Jesse Joyner: the the means for providing for your family. You and your wife have three kids. This is this Isn't just like making money in the summertime. Talk to you of this like becoming what you what you do.

00:39:49.180 --> 00:39:50.339
Jesse Joyner: Yeah.

00:39:50.570 --> 00:39:54.640
Jesse Joyner: So I mean, I I can say that

00:39:54.650 --> 00:40:02.900
Jesse Joyner: the Lord is provided miraculously over the years, you know, for for my family I I also sometimes I

00:40:02.910 --> 00:40:17.000
Jesse Joyner: I'll sell juggling toys at a merchandise table after my show, so i'll do my show, and then i'll tell the crowd, you know. Hey, come on, check out my merchandise to show all the All the proceeds. Go to the feed my family,

00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:19.190
Andy Miller III: that one,

00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:31.830
Jesse Joyner: you know. But you know, really, people, over the years I have found that people have been very generous to me in supporting what I do. It's it's like It's kind of like when people

00:40:32.100 --> 00:40:38.139
Jesse Joyner: hire me, or bring me in to to speak at an event, or do something for them.

00:40:38.530 --> 00:40:52.999
Jesse Joyner: I've learned over the years that it's um to. I've learned over the years that that's their way of like patronizing the arts, you know. But like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And a positive use of that word patronizing

00:40:53.010 --> 00:41:01.850
Jesse Joyner: absolutely right. It's a positive use of being a patron of the arts right. It is someone who I mean like back in the

00:41:02.450 --> 00:41:09.690
Jesse Joyner: what was it? The one thousand five hundreds in Italy? Right it wasn't it. Was it the Medici family? Am I getting that right? Like they are?

00:41:09.700 --> 00:41:29.339
Jesse Joyner: They're the ones who funded um the great artists like Michelangelo. And okay, maybe not dimensional. But you know the Sistine Chapel. And yeah, the you know Michelangelo's, you know, carvings and yeah, not carving sculptures. You know of

00:41:29.350 --> 00:41:36.250
Jesse Joyner: the Pieta. And yet you you have this beautiful art telling the story of God,

00:41:36.260 --> 00:41:50.689
Jesse Joyner: and they they were funded by our patrons and correct me. If i'm wrong you might. Someone might have to look this up. I believe it. What the Medici family, I believe, was, was one of the primary art patrons of the time that that helped fund great art. Yeah,

00:41:50.700 --> 00:42:07.319
Jesse Joyner: you have that even today you have found the yeah that support the artists. So every time someone brings me in to do my show or invites me to perform what I have. I see that as them they're they're supporting me as an artist, and I am internally grateful.

00:42:07.330 --> 00:42:07.890
Jesse Joyner: Yeah,

00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:12.019
Jesse Joyner: and it really is a blessing. I don't take it for granted, and

00:42:12.240 --> 00:42:21.660
Jesse Joyner: i'm not in it for the money, but it sure does help to you know, pay for my eating bill and buy diapers for my little children,

00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:28.339
Jesse Joyner: you know, like it's everything is a blessing. I I started out

00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:43.160
Jesse Joyner: when I started doing this kind of work. It was while I was in college at University, and I would I would work almost every weekend, and often mid-week events, doing juggling shows like around Central Indiana and a little bit of yawn,

00:42:43.290 --> 00:42:56.200
Jesse Joyner: and when I started out I was I actually kind of felt bad asking people to pay me like because I loved what I did so much, and I was like well, you know I don't know. Just let me do my show, and I don't know. Give me a

00:42:56.210 --> 00:43:10.590
Jesse Joyner: offering or a donation, or you know i'll accept anything like that. I really did go in with this attitude of i'm just grateful to do what I do, and i'm not going to demand a B out of you.

00:43:10.600 --> 00:43:26.009
Jesse Joyner: And I did that for about four years, and um, and i'm so glad I started out that way because I think it helped me. It helped me for the rest of my vocational career up to this point. Still kind of view, what I do is like.

00:43:26.040 --> 00:43:34.410
Jesse Joyner: It's ultimately not about the money like i'm not doing it for the money. Now they're ridiculous. Time, or I was doing it more often, and

00:43:34.620 --> 00:43:43.689
Jesse Joyner: you know, at different events where they they wanted to know. Like, how much do we need to pay you for this, you know, because it takes four. Oh, yeah, you're away from your family.

00:43:43.700 --> 00:43:51.389
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, Exactly. So. So there comes a time in one's life, or if it's like if you want to make a living out of it. There's there's got to be some sort of understanding that.

00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.379
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, you got to make a living from it. Um,

00:43:55.040 --> 00:43:57.290
Jesse Joyner: but the I think because it it,

00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:23.130
Jesse Joyner: I got to the point where my campus pastor at Taylor University. He saw what I was doing, and he was like you need to charge people for like like Don't. Just get yourself away for free and um, and and that really, that really kind of stretched me because I I almost felt like that. I felt bash or taking money, for you know, for what I was doing. And but but again over the years, especially because it's an art that I believe

00:44:23.140 --> 00:44:24.180
Jesse Joyner: her.

00:44:24.340 --> 00:44:27.569
Jesse Joyner: I don't know that i'm passionate about. And

00:44:27.670 --> 00:44:28.770
Jesse Joyner: ah!

00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:40.289
Jesse Joyner: I just learned that people do want to support you, you know. If you're an artist, they want to know they want to bless you, and they want to thank you for the art that you're doing, and

00:44:40.300 --> 00:44:51.179
Jesse Joyner: I've got to work for that. Yeah, I am just so. I'm so thankful that it's helped me change my mind about other artists, too, like I see other artists out in the world, and i'm like, Well, I want to support them. Yeah, because they're they're

00:44:51.190 --> 00:45:03.019
Jesse Joyner: they're doing art in the world they're doing, performing. They're putting it out there like Buster is street performers like I love dropping some money in their hat because I've been there. I've done that. I know what it's like, and I know what it is, and I want to see.

00:45:03.030 --> 00:45:14.490
Jesse Joyner: I never want to see the busker go away from the world. I want to see them continue on, and so I will gladly, you know, like support them because I have been supported so much over my life.

00:45:14.500 --> 00:45:15.189
Jesse Joyner: Yeah,

00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:27.589
Jesse Joyner: I I feel like ah this: when I was serving as a Soviet Army officer for about fifteen years. Um, I wasn't allowed to have any other sorts of income that was part of like the deal of being a savage from me officer, and I was only allowed to generally,

00:45:27.890 --> 00:45:45.460
Andy Miller III: except two opportunities for ministry outside of my appointment each year. Well, that all changed when I came to Wesley, and I never had um charged. I never, I mean, I remember, like I did a pretty big event while as a Soviet Army officer that i'm guessing somebody would get,

00:45:45.470 --> 00:45:57.290
Jesse Joyner: you know, a significant honorarium now for it. But I remember at the end of it I was given a a mug, a coffee bug, and that is actually a really nice coffee. I still I use it every day.

00:45:57.300 --> 00:46:03.989
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, I mean, it's a. And somebody said, Oh, that's a shame that you're doing. I'm like, No, i'm. I'm not allowed to everything so to get this mug, it's awesome.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:04.889
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, yeah,

00:46:04.900 --> 00:46:16.720
Jesse Joyner: he has a very special month to you. I'm sure he's very special. But But now, like I would have done that event now, like I would expect a you know, sizeable honorary. But it's been. It's been interesting, because now I've

00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:29.420
Andy Miller III: in a year of not being in a local church pastor. I've preached more than I did in the local church, and so I've had. People have asked me, and I've had to develop a cost, and I have that first a fee,

00:46:29.620 --> 00:46:40.080
Jesse Joyner: and I had to calculate. Well, what's the value to my family? What do I make? What am I losing, and the first time somebody asked me and I gave them a number I was like

00:46:40.090 --> 00:47:05.299
Jesse Joyner: i'd fear it was really hard for me, because because me. I'm like i'm a preacher like I'm. Here I am doing it. But still I got to see the joy that people have in offering an opportunity to provide for you like we provide for the person who's doing it, and I imagine that would be like i'm sorry I haven't ever been able to hire you myself, Jesse, but I would love to support you.

00:47:05.310 --> 00:47:14.159
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, no, I I totally understand like what you're saying and it's. Um: yeah. One thing I learned in my dissertation research,

00:47:14.170 --> 00:47:25.990
Jesse Joyner: I interviewed on thirty Christian variety. I go into that. That's good. Yeah, i'm sure ends. And these were deep diameter. So it was a qualitative research study. It's not like I'm.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:41.979
Jesse Joyner: It's not like. I'm trying to do some quantitative thing where i'm trying to curb theory That's not that wasn't the methodology. I guess I used to. It's called qualitative Research, where you kind of dive deep into how people make sense of something. So I was talking about how they

00:47:41.990 --> 00:47:49.619
Jesse Joyner: how they make meaning out of their own vocational callings in in life, you know, particularly for work as variety performers,

00:47:49.630 --> 00:47:52.800
Jesse Joyner: that to say that one subject that came up

00:47:52.810 --> 00:48:12.469
Jesse Joyner: across all thirty interviews, like every last one of them brought up money. Money was a big topic, but it wasn't the main topic. It was it wasn't the end all so the way I put in the dissertation is that money money is for a variety performer.

00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:28.699
Jesse Joyner: Money is everywhere, but it's not everything. It's it's not the main thing. It's not the driving course of what we do, but it's still everywhere, because it's how it's how we operate on this earth. It's, how we exchange it's how we barter it's how we

00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:41.729
Jesse Joyner: support it's, how we live, it's, how we pay for providing for our families, Whatever it's, it's always there, but it's not the driving force ends. And so what am I trying to get at? It? Was it?

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:49.089
Jesse Joyner: It was just need to hear their stories of how money was something that was uh,

00:48:49.350 --> 00:49:18.709
Jesse Joyner: they never. They never chased after it right, but it always showed up like like what they were chasing after, was actually following their calling. And then, yes, being true to their art and true to their calling, they faithful to their heart and faithful to their calling, and when they did, according to them, it's like the money simple follow like like it, just it showed up in the miraculous ways, or just in ways that they were expecting in ways that supported what they did,

00:49:18.720 --> 00:49:21.890
Jesse Joyner: that that was that was encouraging to sixteen.

00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:26.400
Andy Miller III: Yeah, it you. You have four basic ideas that they kind of

00:49:26.660 --> 00:49:31.690
Andy Miller III: that you found consistent throughout this, and it moves from journey, joy, community, and oblation. Am I you?

00:49:31.700 --> 00:49:33.890
Jesse Joyner: That word right?

00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:39.889
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. And that's a new one for me. And I saw that came like you took that into some social sciences.

00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:50.930
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, i'm really fascinated by that. But I think probably it fell in that area where you talked about this journey. This is a part of it. If you're going to do this

00:49:51.080 --> 00:49:53.589
Andy Miller III: you're going to have to figure out how to be away from your family.

00:49:53.600 --> 00:50:06.590
Jesse Joyner: I sometimes in travel and be in odd places, and deal with weird things with people hosting you, and funny ways and all kinds of stuff like that. So so so tell me about those those um areas, those four areas.

00:50:06.600 --> 00:50:14.489
Andy Miller III: Why, that's significant, because it could just sound like, Oh, well, this is just kind of four points. But they were things that you pulled from your interviews.

00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:26.290
Jesse Joyner: That's correct. Yeah. So so I um. You know, I transcribed all the interviews and got tons of, you know, like textual data from that you can, you know, work for word transcribing, and

00:50:26.300 --> 00:50:28.470
Jesse Joyner: it was exciting. It was almost like,

00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:56.999
Jesse Joyner: you know, doing an an inductive Bible study, right? Like, Yeah, you have to look at the text, and you have to draw out from the text, not read into it. So i'm drawing it as a text of these interviews like, What is it that these people actually said, and how it any meeting of different topics and their own callings? And And yeah, those were the four major themes that arose to the top. In my analysis of that data Um, like as you said that there's a there's a journey to one's calling.

00:50:57.010 --> 00:51:09.930
Jesse Joyner: Ah! Calling expresses itself in the form of joy. For these performers, like both internally and and as an outward expression towards others, they they do it in the context of community, both being

00:51:09.950 --> 00:51:18.890
Jesse Joyner: like, supported and encouraged by a community around them, and contributing to a larger community like a very vocational community. Yeah, sure.

00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:35.899
Jesse Joyner: And then, finally, the oblation. That's It's an old-fashioned word. That means a sacrificial offering. So um and it was, and and that came straight out of yeah social science, Um Abraham Maslow, the the hierarchy of that hierarchy, needs. So

00:51:35.910 --> 00:51:42.610
Jesse Joyner: what he found is that the people who had achieved in his studies with what's called self-actualization, He found it

00:51:42.650 --> 00:51:51.789
Jesse Joyner: pretty much to a tea. All those people that have that had reached self-actualization approach their own life,

00:51:52.270 --> 00:52:01.359
Jesse Joyner: work and labor as as a as a calling, and he said like an oblation, and and like as if

00:52:01.370 --> 00:52:24.379
Jesse Joyner: their their work was something that they poured out on an altar of of sacrifice unto the Lord. You know unto a deity, because that it's oblation is a religious term. It's used in the project of of making a sacrificial offering to a Deity. So whatever religion you're in it, they can apply a different religion. Religion term is. It's very broad. So

00:52:24.390 --> 00:52:36.029
Jesse Joyner: but it's Christians right like we we see. I mean. What Jesus did was an oblation. You know he's the sacrificial lamb.

00:52:36.160 --> 00:52:50.089
Jesse Joyner: But what we do is our even the work of our hands. It's it's it's hard, it's toilsome, we sweat by it. It can be difficult, you know. It's not all fun and games all the time, even even jugglers and circumstances. It can be tough.

00:52:50.100 --> 00:53:07.389
Jesse Joyner: And yet what we're doing is we we are taking this this work that we've been gifted with, and we're we're sacrificially offering it not just to the world, you know, in service to others, but ultimately unto the board. Like it's.

00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:15.390
Jesse Joyner: That's what it makes. I believe a calling, you know, is something that you're taking, and you're you're offering it back unto the Lord.

00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:19.690
Jesse Joyner: He's the one who gave us those gifts, and that calling in the first place.

00:53:19.700 --> 00:53:31.189
Jesse Joyner: Yes, and and then we funnel it through our own life expression for ourselves and for others. But then we we like, We direct it right back up to God by kind of directing

00:53:31.200 --> 00:53:42.189
Jesse Joyner: all that we do unto him. Colossians three hundred and seventeen, you know, whatever you do, whether in word or indeed do it all, you know in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. So

00:53:42.200 --> 00:53:55.190
Andy Miller III: and you know when that's happening, you know, when you're giving that type of offerance the best of your skill set. I imagine I could come to your show, and I might not know it when you're not a sharp. But you do.

00:53:55.200 --> 00:53:57.289
Jesse Joyner: There you go.

00:53:57.300 --> 00:54:10.490
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, yeah, Maybe I could. I mean, I guess you could drop people. But that's the thing that there there is an old saying about travellers that, like, you know we are. We are one of the types of jobs where we do mess up. Everybody sees right.

00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:26.979
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, it's. It's like like referees or umpires and sports right like they. They're invisible if they're doing everything right. But once they mess up, it's very, very visible, and so jugglers are like that to read our hell to a very high standard, and with our with our claims of being able to double things.

00:54:26.990 --> 00:54:32.810
Andy Miller III: Yeah, I guess it could show, maybe not just in juggling itself, but in the um the act

00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:54.229
Jesse Joyner: your transitions like when you well, I don't know what would make it hard. But there are things about in any art form in that. This, you know, if you think of sports as an art. Um, but as as teaching as an art. So I know when i'm when i'm in the right zone. And i'm thinking when i'm doing the right, like

00:54:54.240 --> 00:55:16.090
Jesse Joyner: students, might not realize that I wasn't as organized at this point, but I kind of lay it off, not not saying that that happens on a regular basis, so I hope not. But we can try to put ourselves in that place where the elation of it like. We. We want to offer the best that we can for the Lord in this, because, like what we're doing is utilizing the gift she's given us for that higher purpose.

00:55:16.100 --> 00:55:17.490
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. Oh, yeah,

00:55:17.500 --> 00:55:18.339
Jesse Joyner: yes,

00:55:18.350 --> 00:55:24.990
Andy Miller III: this is so interesting, Jesse. What are some of the things that that people don't ask you that you think they should.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:26.469
Jesse Joyner: Oh, man

00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:32.490
Andy Miller III: like what is it? People don't know about even being on the road or being a variety performer.

00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:36.790
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, I already asked the obvious question like, What's the hardest thing you've ever done

00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:38.659
Jesse Joyner: there. Yeah. But tell me about,

00:55:38.670 --> 00:55:47.179
Jesse Joyner: you know. So here's something that comes to mind. Some people Sometimes I think what people don't understand. If you're if someone is not a traveling performer,

00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:58.860
Jesse Joyner: there's some things that they just don't. I don't think they will ever fully understand like that we as traveling performers we all get, we all understand, like you can put me in a room with some other traveling farmers, and we would all

00:55:58.870 --> 00:56:17.199
Jesse Joyner: connect and relate on like as we talk shop about what it means to be on the road and be performing, you know, day after day and night after night, and sleeping in this hotel, and then that would tell him getting on this airplane, and you know, having a delayed flight and canceled quiet, and we show up at a show, and you give it your all ends, and then,

00:56:17.210 --> 00:56:28.369
Jesse Joyner: you know afterwards, like your adoring fans, all want your attention, and they all want your signature, and they, you know they all want to talk to you all night long. But you know you just want to go back to the hotel room and class.

00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:36.060
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, sure, Um. And so there is something that I think we as performers we do understand about each other that we,

00:56:36.090 --> 00:56:37.770
Jesse Joyner: you know, like

00:56:38.020 --> 00:56:56.069
Jesse Joyner: you. You can't be everybody's best friend all the time, you know people see you on stage, and they feel this deep connection to you because you're talking to them. And you're or maybe you're on a big screen, because it's a big event. They're putting your face on a big screen. And and all of a sudden you become like a celebrity or a star in their mind,

00:56:56.080 --> 00:57:04.490
Jesse Joyner: and then afterwards they all want to talk to you, and be just as close to you as you were to them on stage. Now

00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:15.510
Jesse Joyner: there's there. I believe there is a level of responsibility for those of us. With privilege to be on stages. You know we do carry a responsibility to connect and engage with people,

00:57:15.520 --> 00:57:36.330
Jesse Joyner: you know, on a on a human level, and and definitely and respectful Um, and and uh, be thankful, you know, that just for the opportunity we do. But there's a limit, you know. It's like there comes. We have to say I need to go home now, or I need to go be by myself. Now I think I need to like I can't. I can't give everybody the audience,

00:57:36.340 --> 00:57:43.610
Jesse Joyner: you know, an hour of my time after the show to talk and chat. I i'm a human. I need to get some sleep right? Yeah,

00:57:43.680 --> 00:58:01.389
Jesse Joyner: So so and you gotta. You gotta balance things like that you want to be gracious and kind and thankful, but you also at the end of the day. Sometimes you have to like, shut the door and say, i'm so sorry. I gotta go now, you know, like I I have to wake up early and catch another play uh it. Most people understand. But um, you know.

00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:06.689
Jesse Joyner: Do you have a rider, or do you have to have all Brown, M. And Ms. When you show up?

00:58:06.700 --> 00:58:23.579
Jesse Joyner: I try. I try not to be. Ah, you know I try not to be picky. I try to. You know I I do have a writer, but I I try to just keep it to the the necessary items that just help help the show go Well, and the yeah, well, and that's what I want. I want each of that to be a

00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:37.639
Jesse Joyner: you know, a success in terms of serving the you know the goals of the events and serving right in the process ultimately serving the Lord, you know. Yeah, everybody here.

00:58:37.650 --> 00:58:56.190
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. A comedian. And talking about the importance of some of those functional things that need to be in place like you might not need this, or maybe you like it. But having a spotlight for a comedian, there's something about the way they direct. The audience's attention to them.

00:58:56.200 --> 00:59:11.789
Jesse Joyner: It's important for the act to function. And and in some people all you're just a prem Madonna or something like that. But it really is important to have those things in place. We're like, you know, you show up some place, and they don't have a good microphone where any number of things.

00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:20.530
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, Yeah, I start. Yeah, I carry my own microphone around the the the the headset, the receiver, and everything, and I can plug it into most any sound system. But

00:59:20.540 --> 00:59:37.239
Jesse Joyner: um, yeah, thankfully, a lot of the events I go to most people. They like the the Sound and the tech crew and the teams like they're great people, and they they they! They want it to be a successful event, and they do a great job most of the time, you know, of of hooking the up, and

00:59:37.250 --> 00:59:56.859
Jesse Joyner: but but it each event's different. And because I go to different ones, I do have to like, start over again with each one like, Okay, let's do a sound check. Let's make sure the lights are where you know they need to be. Let's play my background music. I I don't. I don't carry around it

00:59:56.870 --> 01:00:13.259
Jesse Joyner: a rody crew like I don't. I don't try anything that comes around with me, so I have to learn how to adjust to a new group of people every single time I do a show, and I've I've learned over the years to be

01:00:13.420 --> 01:00:30.120
Jesse Joyner: humble about it. I think early on. I was a little bit of a diva about it, like everything's got to go my way, and you gotta do what I want to do. But I've learned, maybe i'm older now that you know often these events that I go to the person running sound. You know.

01:00:30.240 --> 01:00:44.389
Jesse Joyner: You know they they work with a lot of performers, too, and they they've seen a lot of good, bad, and ugly, and I've learned that sometimes just to just be friendly and respect people and be nice to people, and they'll be nice back.

01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:45.290
Andy Miller III: Yeah, sure.

01:00:45.300 --> 01:01:01.989
Jesse Joyner: And and they'll they'll be on your side and um, Yeah. So I So I try to be. I try to be humble and thankful for the great sound. Consider behind me, because, you know, I I want them to be on my side, not against me. They have the power to mute, you know, if they all right. That's right. Yeah,

01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:03.189
Jesse Joyner: yeah, yeah.

01:01:03.200 --> 01:01:12.489
Jesse Joyner: So one of the things I do like to find. My podcast is called Morda's story, and I often ask that question so well. Is there more to the story of Jesse juggling in ministry.

01:01:12.500 --> 01:01:13.790
Jesse Joyner: Well, sure,

01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:26.319
Jesse Joyner: yeah. So. Well, I mentioned I played with piano. I still play the piano as my side hobby that I don't perform on stage piano is like in the privacy of my own home. So I I like to play the piano. I like to sing, and

01:01:26.330 --> 01:01:34.510
Jesse Joyner: I like bird watching. Okay, I like going on hikes with my family. We like to explore the national parks

01:01:34.520 --> 01:01:59.340
Jesse Joyner: parks across the country. Which ones have you been to recently so like? During Covid. We made it out to Grand Canyon and Zion. And okay. Ah, you know Shenandoah National Park here in Virginia. We've been to Crater Lake out in Oregon, and not just the national parks, but also National Forests and um, you know, natural conservation areas like so

01:01:59.350 --> 01:02:11.590
Jesse Joyner: like, you know, like Acid Sea Island out in the eastern shore of Virginia, White Mountain, National Forest, up in New Hampshire. We just went there this this past summer. America really is a beautiful country.

01:02:11.600 --> 01:02:21.499
Jesse Joyner: You don't need a passport to see the world. It's it's a it's a beautiful, but we have so much, you know, here in this in this nation, and I guess as a traveler, I do.

01:02:21.510 --> 01:02:36.849
Jesse Joyner: I've grown to learn that. Yeah, there's a lot of beautiful things out there under the National Park service. Yeah, this summer we did Bad Lands much more. Custer, State Park, Yellowstone, Tetons wonderful

01:02:36.930 --> 01:02:43.589
Jesse Joyner: Dab darteau into arches. So we've been a huge But yeah, we've become a National Park family.

01:02:43.600 --> 01:03:05.930
Jesse Joyner: Yes, I love it. Yeah, it Once you get the bug, it it's like you want to just check off a whole list or something. I I would love to make it to the mask and make it so. You know the the many works that are up there. Um, but that's a baseball cards behind you, too. I was gonna get to that. I I also collect baseball cards. My um, you know Cat Calendar, Jr. Is my man. Oh, there you go.

01:03:06.180 --> 01:03:19.189
Jesse Joyner: You know two-time, the Mvp World Series Champion, one thousand nine hundred and eighty, three, and the iron man you know who played more Yeah, the games than any other player. He wrote for your records. So he's. You know he's your best card.

01:03:19.200 --> 01:03:21.890
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, no,

01:03:22.520 --> 01:03:33.109
Jesse Joyner: you know It's bad. That's one. I'm Still, i'm still looking for it. It's actually his tops traded working card. I don't have. I used to have it. But when I was when I was in college. I sold my baseball credit collection

01:03:33.120 --> 01:03:42.539
Jesse Joyner: to buy an engagement brain for Sarah when we get all of them, and I wanted to marry her, so so I sold off my baseball currents. It was right after college,

01:03:42.550 --> 01:03:56.079
Jesse Joyner: and um, you know I you know I got the engagement ring, and she said, Yes, so I came out ahead in that deal. Um, but but about fifteen years into our marriage I I you know I hadn't thought about baseball cards in a while,

01:03:56.090 --> 01:04:11.109
Jesse Joyner: and we stumbled upon an old baseball card shop in Ohio on one of my jumping trips, and we went inside, and I looked around, and I could sn all the smells again. Oh, yeah, the baseball cards and the bubble gum and all that stuff. And and there in the case was a

01:04:11.350 --> 01:04:30.940
Jesse Joyner: not a super expensive car, but I It was a memorable one for me, but it was one of cowardly. Oh, yeah, the Don Don Don recipe to, and I saw it in there, and there was, I think it was like fourteen dollars, not very expensive for it, and she saw me, you know, salad, and she was like, Go ahead, Go ahead and buy it for yourself. So so I bought it for fourteen dollars,

01:04:30.950 --> 01:04:42.000
Jesse Joyner: and when I put this when I brought this home. This one card was the bug that got me back into collecting all these years later. So I started trying to a mess

01:04:42.010 --> 01:04:56.689
Jesse Joyner: a little bit of what I used to have before I sold it all, you know, to buy her engagement ring. But the the beautiful thing is like she kind of started it, you know, like she she gave me permission to go ahead and buy this for myself, and it's almost like

01:04:56.700 --> 01:05:15.889
Jesse Joyner: you know she's she's redeeming, you know, my old hobby that I had sold off all those years ago? Um with with her blessing, so that that was one of my

01:05:15.900 --> 01:05:19.290
Jesse Joyner: autograph ball that that's probably one of my favorite. Is that how we're looking?

01:05:19.300 --> 01:05:24.190
Jesse Joyner: Yeah, Yeah, that's all. Wow, that's one of my favorite pieces of memorabilia from them

01:05:24.200 --> 01:05:34.689
Jesse Joyner: That's where cards have gone now is towards like giving pieces of jerseys and autographs. My friend, he's a listener to this podcast sometimes is Jonathan Fitzgerald.

01:05:34.700 --> 01:05:36.179
Yeah, there There's just Jersey right there.

01:05:36.190 --> 01:05:43.960
Jesse Joyner: There. You got it. Yeah, they're called. They're called Relic cards. It's it's very religious sounding, You know. They're relics.

01:05:44.740 --> 01:06:00.090
Jesse Joyner: Interesting. Well, I have a Ryan Sandburg rookie card. That was my that's my player. That's my and I have a Walter Payton a second year card. I did. I did sell them. In my last move. I used to have so many. I sold a lot of them, but I kept kept a few of my favorites.

01:06:00.100 --> 01:06:01.790
Jesse Joyner: It's been so good.

01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:07.119
Jesse Joyner: Yes. Tell some people how they can find you if they want to book you, or just find out more about what you're doing.

01:06:07.130 --> 01:06:13.489
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. Should I get my home address and my social security number? They want to, I think social security for me.

01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:18.299
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. Um,

01:06:18.590 --> 01:06:34.690
Jesse Joyner: Okay. So the the best place to start is my website, which is Jesse Joiner, dot com, and and it's uh there's no I in my name. It's J. E. Ss, E. J. O. Y. N. E. R.

01:06:34.700 --> 01:06:44.640
Jesse Joyner: Some people put an eye in my name. That's that's usually how a female Jesse spells her name so like male Jesse's are usually. J.

01:06:44.650 --> 01:06:58.729
Jesse Joyner: If you're wondering we we have three kids. One, our third is a boy, and we named him David. So he's. Okay, David, son of Jesse. Oh, there you go. You like that. I love it. Yeah. So,

01:06:58.740 --> 01:07:10.419
Jesse Joyner: anyway, very difficult. But Jesse joined her com, and from there you can link to my Youtube Channel. It's Jesse Joiner on Youtube, and I've got how to trouble videos.

01:07:10.430 --> 01:07:25.409
Jesse Joyner: Highlight reels from my shows that kind of stuff. If If anyone's interested. Um, Yeah, I hope they will be. The Facebook is guide. What are all that stuff? I'm. I'm not on tik tok or Snapchat. I can't keep up with all the newest figures of this. You know what I think it

01:07:25.590 --> 01:07:33.790
Jesse Joyner: it's, you know, for jugglers for me personally in my age it's just kind of just find your art and go do it Well, you know you don't. You don't need that.

01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:40.589
Jesse Joyner: You don't need tiktok to make yourself famous. At least not that i'm not interested in it so much. I just want to juggle.

01:07:40.600 --> 01:08:03.689
Jesse Joyner: Yeah. Oh, man, I love it. Well, i'm so thankful, Jesse, for the way you know God has taken this gift that you have, and you're using it for the kingdom to tell this bigger story. And, like I just I love. This is kind of the idea of the podcast is to get a little bit deeper, but you know, have more to the story behind what's going on juggling, so it's It's great for me, too, just to connect with you again. I hope we can do more in the future.

01:08:03.700 --> 01:08:06.790
Jesse Joyner: This has been fun.

Copyright ©2024 Andrew S. Miller III