Andy Miller III
Cover Image for Top Ten Holiness Book with Dr. Chris Lohrstorfer

Top Ten Holiness Book with Dr. Chris Lohrstorfer

March 31, 2022

There are a host of outstanding resources in the Wesleyan holiness tradition. Chris Lohrstorfer and I attempted to boil down a top ten list of books in the holiness tradition. You can find a link to this podcast here.


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Here’s our list and links you can find to these books:

10. Chris Lohrstorfer, Learning to Breathe

9. Kevin Watson, Perfect Love

8. Andrew Murray, Be Perfect

7. Keith Drury, Holiness for Ordinary People

6. Timothy Tennent, The Call to Holiness

5. John Oswalt, Called to Be Holy

4. John Waldron, The Privilege of All Believers

3. Dennis Kinlaw, Let's Start with Jesus

2. Samuel Logan Brengle, The Guest of the Soul

1. John Wesley, Scripture Way of Salvation

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And I am delighted today to have on the podcast with me Dr. Chris Lohrstorfer, Chris, welcome to podcasts.

00:01:34 Chris L.

Thanks Sir.

00:01:36 Andy Miller III

And so Chris is our professor of Wesley Studies here and we have a lot of good conversations in the hallway and I thought you know what?

00:01:43 Andy Miller III

Let's just see let's just put if I developed a top five list and you developed a top five list of Holiness later.

00:01:50 Andy Miller III

Could we actually agree upon like #1 and all that says that we?

00:01:53 Andy Miller III

Did and here we.

00:01:54 Andy Miller III

Are we got it so Chris, tell us just a little bit about yourself before we get started.

00:01:58 Chris L.

Well, let's see. I've been a pastor for 30 something years. I've been 25 years at my church where I presently serve in Raymond, Ms.

00:02:05 Andy Miller III

OK, and you're originally from Indiana.

00:02:07 Chris L.

Course well great.

00:02:07 Andy Miller III

Here we got the best people from Indiana.

00:02:10 Andy Miller III

So anything else you want to add there?

00:02:11 Chris L.

I've been teaching for 30 years as well college and seminary.

00:02:16 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:02:16 Chris L.

Been here 11 years at WBZ right.

00:02:18 Andy Miller III

Right, we're so glad that you are here and and look in and you did your doctoral research on John Wesley theology right to looking at his doctrine of sin.

00:02:24 Chris L.

Correct, Yep, original sin looked at his sources for his doctor.

00:02:29 Chris L.

Original sin.

00:02:30 Andy Miller III

That's the shortest I've ever heard.

00:02:32 Andy Miller III

You say that 'cause it's very intense.

00:02:34 Andy Miller III

Yeah, so we can.

00:02:34 Andy Miller III

We can refer you to some resources about that soon.

00:02:37 Andy Miller III

OK number 10 our list and I'm going to go ahead and push this through taking.

00:02:40 Andy Miller III

My prerogative as.

00:02:41 Andy Miller III

A host of podcast.

00:02:43 Andy Miller III

Your book learning to breathe, mastering the art of spiritual respiration.

00:02:47 Andy Miller III

Christy give a little summary this.

00:02:49 Andy Miller III

This is why people.

00:02:50 Andy Miller III

We are interested in a top ten list on holiness literature, right?

00:02:52 Andy Miller III

Book would be helpful to him.

00:02:54 Chris L.

Now this book does something that no other book I've found actually does. So. John Wesley concept of spiritual respiration is that you find ways to breathe in God's grace every day and breathe out. God, great. It's really about intimacy. This is how to do the intimate life with God, but it's connected.

00:02:58 Andy Miller III


00:03:14 Chris L.

To holiness in the sense that when Wesley talks about how to be Sanctus.

00:03:19 Chris L.

He says basically a person needs to be involved in the works of piety and works of mercy, and that's involved in the spiritual respiration.

00:03:24 Speaker 1


00:03:28 Chris L.

So the 2GO hand in hand because he says about about works of mercy and works of piety, that if you're not doing those things, you can't even stay where you are spiritually, let alone move forward. And he said, it's.

00:03:39 Chris L.

Those are absolutely necessary for sanctification.

00:03:42 Chris L.

Wow, I.

00:03:43 Chris L.

I don't hear people saying that, but that this book tells people how to be intimate with God and how to walk in that journey towards sanctification.

00:03:49 Andy Miller III

That's great, you know.

00:03:50 Andy Miller III

One things we emphasize in.

00:03:52 Andy Miller III

We had the top ten discipleship books and that same theme.

00:03:55 Andy Miller III

It works up hiding works of mercy.

00:03:56 Andy Miller III

And that's something we've actually built.

00:03:58 Andy Miller III

Put in to our curriculum here and you were part of shaping that before I ever got here to think about how we are making sure that we have opportunities for people to practice these things. So check out learning to breathe number 10 now, #9.

00:04:10 Andy Miller III

Former guests on my podcast Kevin Watson brand new book Nam.

00:04:14 Andy Miller III

I was a little hesitant to put a new book on the list.

00:04:17 Andy Miller III

Most of them are well over 100 years old, right? But his new book, that Seabed published Perfect, loved recovering entire sanctification. The lost power of the Methodist movement. What do you think of this?

00:04:30 Chris L.

Book, Oh yeah, it's it's.

00:04:31 Chris L.

It's a pretty good book.

00:04:32 Chris L.

I like it.

00:04:32 Chris L.

I like.

00:04:33 Chris L.

His hair, yeah, let's get going here.

00:04:34 Speaker 1

Ha ha ha ha.

00:04:35 Chris L.

But the book the book is it's good.

00:04:37 Andy Miller III

Well, you know and and he walks through this in a in a really clear way.

00:04:41 Andy Miller III

It's not in an academic book I did endorse.

00:04:44 Andy Miller III

I was looking for my endorsement, but this is the kind of advanced sale copy.

00:04:48 Andy Miller III

But I mean, I felt like this is a very clear explanation explanation.

00:04:52 Andy Miller III

And one thing I like that he highlights and you can go back to my podcast where I talked to Kevin Watson.

00:04:57 Andy Miller III

I think you'll find that.

00:04:58 Andy Miller III

Interesting about this book.

00:04:59 Andy Miller III

We probably had an hour long disc.

00:05:00 Andy Miller III

Question about it, but he takes from one of John Wesley's sermons. A few words that holiness is love eliminating sin, yeah, and those three words are, I think, now some people might say the best definition of holiness is christlikeness. It's one word, three word. And now I think that that could be problematic, actually, but love.

00:05:15 Speaker 1


00:05:21 Andy Miller III

Eliminating sin, this kind of where does love come from?

00:05:24 Andy Miller III

That God is love?

00:05:25 Andy Miller III

God exists as three persons always in a relationship, father, son, Holy Spirit, love, love it, love that love that we share in union in in relationship with the father.

00:05:34 Andy Miller III

Love that.

00:05:35 Andy Miller III

And eliminating scenario life.

00:05:38 Chris L.

And more specifically, Wesley said, love expelling sandwiches?

00:05:42 Chris L.

How it's eliminated?

00:05:43 Chris L.

I mean, he just put a more a more moderate word shift, but the words actually expelling, and he describes it as almost like you've got so much love in there.

00:05:43 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yeah.

00:05:45 Andy Miller III

Oh, interesting.

00:05:52 Chris L.

There's no room for anything else because it's just got.

00:05:55 Chris L.

Moved out, it's moved out.

00:05:56 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right.

00:05:58 Andy Miller III

And in thinking about sin is an important thing, because that's often the main objection people have to holiness theology in general is they think, oh, you are a bunch of sinless perfection.

00:06:03 Speaker 1


00:06:06 Andy Miller III

People you think this is your your perfect?

00:06:06 Speaker 1

Right, right?

00:06:08 Andy Miller III

Right perfect love like.

00:06:09 Andy Miller III

What's this about?

00:06:10 Andy Miller III

But the idea with what we think about with Christian perfection.

00:06:13 Andy Miller III

And we think about sin, like the kind of Wesley's do you use of the word sin. He thinks at any area of our life.

00:06:21 Andy Miller III

I'm sorry, he says, uh, a willful transgression to known law of God is, is that right?

00:06:26 Andy Miller III

Accurate is that.

00:06:27 Chris L.

Yeah yeah he.

00:06:28 Chris L.

Says send properly so called there's there's multiple.

00:06:31 Chris L.

Avenues, I mean angles of sin which wouldn't fit into that necessarily there.

00:06:36 Andy Miller III


00:06:36 Chris L.

There are other angles, but he calls it sin properly, so called quoting from Richard Lucas the book Inquiry query.

00:06:44 Chris L.

After happiness, his mother favorite devotional book, which Leslie read this whole life, that that's quoting that when he uses the word sin.

00:06:45 Andy Miller III


00:06:51 Chris L.

Properly so called 'cause that's exactly how Lucas said.

00:06:55 Chris L.

So yeah, he when he's talking about sin, that can be eliminated from your life.

00:06:58 Chris L.

It's not mistakes or sins of ignorance or fallenness itself necessarily, but that willful transgression.

00:07:04 Andy Miller III


00:07:07 Chris L.

That is something that's a choice.

00:07:10 Andy Miller III

Knowing you're doing something wrong, knowing that this is what God wants for you and you choose to do the opposite.

00:07:11 Chris L.

Yeah, that's right.

00:07:13 Chris L.

Yeah right, that is unnecessary.

00:07:16 Andy Miller III

Yeah, I like I, I think that's a helpful and it's that type of sin that we have the opportunity to be freed from or that can speak spelled from our life.

00:07:24 Chris L.

Yeah, that's right.

00:07:25 Andy Miller III

So that was one of the great takeaways for me.

00:07:27 Andy Miller III

From Kevin.

00:07:28 Andy Miller III

Look, you want to emphasize to we want to be perfect here.

00:07:32 Andy Miller III

It is perfect love, be perfect by Andrew Murray tell.

00:07:34 Chris L.

Me about this.

00:07:35 Chris L.

OK so Andrew Murray.

00:07:36 Chris L.

What I like about this book and I I read this early in my Christian life.

00:07:40 Chris L.

Andrew Murray.

00:07:41 Chris L.

There basically says when you see the word perfect in Scripture, we immediately start making excuses, but he said rather.

00:07:45 Chris L.

Than make excuses.

00:07:47 Chris L.

Let's find out what the word means.

00:07:49 Chris L.

And he takes you through various places where it's used and you get to see the biblical use of the word.

00:07:55 Chris L.

For instance Matthew 548, what does he mean? Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. Obviously the context of that is love again actually, and so he takes you through biblical passages and shows you the.

00:08:09 Chris L.

The actual meaning of the word and not our kind of drummed up thing that we repel whenever we hear the word perfect.

00:08:16 Chris L.

We think, well, I can't be without mistake and my performance will never be.

00:08:20 Chris L.

That's not what he's talking about at all.

00:08:21 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:08:21 Chris L.

So anyway, I love the book.

00:08:23 Chris L.

It's very scripture.

00:08:24 Chris L.

So look devotional level, of course.

00:08:24 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yeah Andrew Murray.

00:08:27 Andy Miller III

I mean in general like his books on prayer and in this book too.

00:08:30 Andy Miller III

Just highly recommend this when when do you know anything about the history of Andrew Murray?

00:08:33 Chris L.

Yeah, late 1800s he was South African I believe right? He was he's Keswick. He's not not Wesleyan per southeast but falls into the Holiness tradition through the Keswick.

00:08:38 Andy Miller III


00:08:40 Andy Miller III


00:08:46 Andy Miller III

So tell me like what?

00:08:47 Andy Miller III

What help help me understand then a little better the difference in Keswick and Wesleyan views I.

00:08:52 Chris L.

In the Wesleyan movement, we would stress a little more the cleansing of your nature, whereas in the Keswick movement they understand that you can be victorious over.

00:09:03 Chris L.

But it's almost like some people call it suppression ISM, you know, like you suppress it somewhat, but but his he would say God gives you the victory over that nature, not so much a look at a cleansing of the nature, but victory over the nature.

00:09:08 Andy Miller III

Right, right OK?

00:09:21 Andy Miller III

So that's distinct in in Wesley Sermon, and we're gonna bring up John Wesley a lot.

00:09:25 Andy Miller III

Don't worry, we're going to get there.

00:09:26 Andy Miller III

But on sinning, believers like that that case where he makes.

00:09:28 Speaker 1


00:09:30 Andy Miller III

And this was helpful for me, that in justification that we are freed from the guilt of sin.

00:09:35 Andy Miller III

But in regeneration a new birth.

00:09:37 Andy Miller III

We are freed from the power thing right as an entire sanctification were freed from the being of sin, yes, so in that sense, like the Keswick movement might not emphasize that side, right?

00:09:50 Chris L.

Wouldn't go that far.

00:09:51 Chris L.

Yeah, it doesn't go quite as far as the Western.

00:09:53 Andy Miller III

Now, is this something that this might be a good time for us to talk about?

00:09:56 Andy Miller III

The distinction between?

00:09:56 Andy Miller III

Sometimes what people call the long way, the middle way and the short way.

00:10:00 Andy Miller III

Tell us like what that what those distinctions are?

00:10:03 Chris L.

So if you're thinking about how sanctification works, how is a person sanctified?

00:10:10 Chris L.

There have been three basic ways in the Wesleyan movement that that's been described the long way.

00:10:16 Chris L.

Let me start there.

00:10:17 Chris L.

Yeah, basically says you're always progressing in sanctification.

00:10:20 Chris L.

As a Christian, you probably won't reach it until maybe right at death or maybe even in glorification.

00:10:27 Chris L.

But most people and some people could but.

00:10:29 Chris L.

Most people in this life would not come to a place we would call entire sanctified.

00:10:33 Chris L.

Patient, right?

00:10:34 Chris L.

It's always kind of progressing there, but never really reaching always.

00:10:38 Chris L.

I call it being sanctified, but not sanctified.

00:10:40 Chris L.

It's OK.

00:10:41 Andy Miller III

Gotcha and so then the short way is kind of like maybe part of my tradition had a lot of this like kind of like a name it and claim it that when you bring yourself to the altar you you then in popularized through Phoebe Palmer's writings.

00:10:53 Andy Miller III


00:10:53 Andy Miller III

That you have this sense that you come is hence is altar theology.

00:10:54 Chris L.

Alter, yeah.

00:10:57 Andy Miller III

You come in, and you can almost name it and claim it that you have the opportunity to experience it.

00:11:01 Chris L.

Anything consecrated to God he will sanctify and immediately, so there's a guarantee that it's immediate.

00:11:04 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right.

00:11:10 Andy Miller III

So that's why this is the short way, right?

00:11:12 Chris L.

Yeah, it's called short.

00:11:12 Andy Miller III

And it's like almost like a method like you do certain things to make this happen.

00:11:14 Chris L.

Right, yes you could.

00:11:16 Chris L.

And and Phoebe Palmer really developed that because of her own struggle over the years, she just didn't want people to have that.

00:11:21 Chris L.

Struggle, which sounds good, but have you ever heard the thing about the?

00:11:25 Chris L.

You know the butterfly and the cocoon?

00:11:26 Chris L.

You know the boy sees that struggling to get out and so he cuts it but the thing dies because it didn't really grow its wings properly because the struggles necessary.

00:11:32 Andy Miller III


00:11:32 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:11:34 Andy Miller III

Wow, and so that leads us to the middle way.

00:11:36 Andy Miller III

Yeah, so we have the the long way the short way and the middle.

00:11:39 Andy Miller III

What is the middle way, Chris?

00:11:40 Chris L.

Middleway says that sanctification begins at.

00:11:45 Chris L.

Initial salvation when you're saved, you get all the Holy Spirit he just didn't get all of.

00:11:47 Andy Miller III

Yes yes yes.

00:11:48 Andy Miller III

Right Amen right?

00:11:50 Chris L.

You and God then leads you into a time of dying to self.

00:11:56 Chris L.

And it's it's a response to his grace and to his leading.

00:11:59 Chris L.

And he he actually, Wesley says.

00:12:01 Chris L.

He empowers you to mortify the deeds of the body.

00:12:06 Chris L.

So God God begins to empower you to die to self and at the end of that process of dying to self and it could take depending on you.

00:12:15 Chris L.

But at the end of that process, when you are.

00:12:18 Chris L.

Fully, you have fully died and you have fully laid out before God.

00:12:22 Chris L.

And you're doing the things he says.

00:12:24 Chris L.

You know those things you have to do right works, piety works, mercy, and you wait, he says.

00:12:25 Andy Miller III

Active mercy active piety yeah.

00:12:29 Chris L.

That's how God called for us to wait until he does it right now.

00:12:30 Andy Miller III

This is the key thing, right?

00:12:35 Chris L.

He does it in one of two ways at this point.

00:12:39 Chris L.

Sometimes great.

00:12:40 Chris L.

Actually, so that a person couldn't necessarily say this as the day it occurred.

00:12:44 Chris L.

Right, but oftentimes instantaneously, after all this process, when you can actually say yes, this is the day.

00:12:53 Chris L.

This is the time.

00:12:54 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:12:54 Chris L.

So all that happens after you've died to self though and you wait and God does it on his timing.

00:13:00 Andy Miller III

Then if you if that went by too fast, go back and listen to.

00:13:04 Andy Miller III

It again or.

00:13:05 Andy Miller III

Audit our class.

00:13:07 Andy Miller III

Yeah, biblical basis for holiness at Western Biblical seminary we we talk about this.

00:13:09 Andy Miller III

Yeah, that's right.

00:13:10 Andy Miller III

We will look at several of these books as America.

00:13:12 Andy Miller III

OK, that was a little bit of a S.

00:13:14 Andy Miller III

Curses for us, but I think you'll help us understand the next few books too as we go through.

00:13:18 Andy Miller III

So we have 10.

00:13:20 Andy Miller III

Learning to breathe 9 perfect love, 8 be perfect.

00:13:24 Andy Miller III

And I decided to throw in their holiness for everyday people by Keith Drury.

00:13:29 Chris L.

It's been very.

00:13:29 Andy Miller III

Now I don't know him.

00:13:30 Chris L.

So I I know him somewhat.

00:13:30 Andy Miller III

Yeah, it's great.

00:13:31 Andy Miller III

Oh you do.

00:13:32 Andy Miller III

OK gotcha.

00:13:32 Chris L.

Yeah, he may not know my name.

00:13:33 Andy Miller III

But I I know him well.

00:13:34 Andy Miller III

This is a book that has been out for a long time and I just feel like if you're going to explain to people he's published by Wesleyan.

00:13:39 Andy Miller III

Publishing house, you're going to explain to people what this language is.

00:13:43 Andy Miller III

That somewhat is somewhat antiquated and hard to access.

00:13:45 Andy Miller III

It's just an outstanding writer who's able to work through things in a clear way.

00:13:50 Andy Miller III

Clear definitions of sin, taking the biblical imagery in place and just giving people ways to think about.

00:13:55 Andy Miller III

And he also identifies that kind of long way middle a short way.

00:13:58 Chris L.

Correct, yeah, a lot of people have read this.

00:13:58 Andy Miller III

Pete Center too, so.

00:14:00 Chris L.

It's it's one of the more well read Holiness books in the West movie.

00:14:03 Andy Miller III

So in my tradition, a lot of people would emphasize, you know, certain folks within our Trisha. I actually bought 25 of these.

00:14:11 Andy Miller III

I'd have 25 on my desk or in my bookcase all time so I can give it out to people. This is one of the books that I do that with.

00:14:17 Andy Miller III

Oh great.

00:14:18 Andy Miller III


00:14:19 Chris L.

Maybe someday you'll do that with.

00:14:20 Chris L.

My book too.

00:14:21 Andy Miller III

Oh, I'm sorry. Once again, once it moves up to #6.

00:14:23 Chris L.

Yeah, if he moves up there you go.

00:14:25 Andy Miller III

OK, so we're at that. That was number OK where I'm at ten 9876. Yeah, this book is written now.

00:14:34 Andy Miller III

This is a little bitty book.

00:14:35 Andy Miller III

It's hardly even a just more of a message, but it's the call to holiness by Tim tenant pursuing the heart of God for the love of the world.

00:14:43 Andy Miller III

Now I I wanted to bring some books.

00:14:45 Andy Miller III

Here I did.

00:14:45 Andy Miller III

We didn't want to necessarily bring academic books to play, so some of these have academic foundation.

00:14:49 Andy Miller III

But this is just a clear description that John Wesley has talking through some of these challenges that come with thinking about the.

00:14:57 Andy Miller III

He has kind of a couple of key moves that he describes, like there's the move to be freed from sin.

00:15:03 Andy Miller III

But then the thing that he adds that I think is so helpful is also to be enabled for service in the world.

00:15:10 Andy Miller III

That holiness doesn't exist just for me and myself, but it's this call to move into the world.

00:15:14 Andy Miller III

And so Tim tenant has been on my podcast.

00:15:16 Andy Miller III

He's, uh, he's president, it's very.

00:15:16 Chris L.

Easy reading that's easy to read.

00:15:18 Andy Miller III


00:15:19 Andy Miller III

There, and it's nice.

00:15:20 Andy Miller III

You can probably read this in less than an hour.

00:15:21 Andy Miller III

Yeah, so I recommend if you're wanting to know or talk about and I'm making it high up on that list, OK?

00:15:28 Andy Miller III

Number five, I want you to introduce.

00:15:30 Chris L.

This one to us.

00:15:30 Chris L.

Yeah called to be holy about John Oswalt.

00:15:32 Chris L.

Again, very influential it.

00:15:34 Chris L.

This is somewhat academic, but not.

00:15:36 Chris L.

It's not over.

00:15:37 Chris L.

It's not overly academic.

00:15:40 Chris L.

The coast Dr.

00:15:41 Chris L.

Oswalt is an Old Testament history, and so he goes into the into the ancient Near eastern concept of holiness and shows how it differs in Israel and walks you through that Old Testament concept.

00:15:55 Chris L.

Act of Holiness and goes somewhat into the new.

00:15:58 Andy Miller III

Testament as well, and this is published by Francis Asbury Society.

00:16:01 Andy Miller III

But one thing that's unique about this is there aren't as many works that exist that are a biblical exegetic o'll approach towards the doctrine sanctification.

00:16:08 Speaker 1

And that's very difficult.

00:16:09 Andy Miller III

Now, it's not like any of the things that we do when you and I preach, or even in your learning to breathe.

00:16:13 Andy Miller III

I'm sure it's biblically focused, but this is.

00:16:15 Andy Miller III

A biblical scholar and you and I would be historical theologians, and so, like we kind of come at things a little differently.

00:16:16 Chris L.

Oh yeah.

00:16:16 Andy Miller III

Any good?

00:16:21 Andy Miller III

But having a biblical style are just now interesting enough.

00:16:24 Andy Miller III

There is another work coming out.

00:16:25 Andy Miller III

I think our own President Matt errors and along with Caleb Freedom in our.

00:16:28 Andy Miller III

But now in a book I think Chris Bounds is a part.

00:16:30 Andy Miller III

Two, that's going to be working through Old Testament New Testament systematic perspective so called to be.

00:16:35 Andy Miller III

Holy and let's see.

00:16:38 Andy Miller III

Why don't you go ahead?

00:16:39 Andy Miller III

We have two.

00:16:39 Andy Miller III

Copies here copies.

00:16:41 Chris L.

Yeah, so the privilege of all believers is a collection of essays.

00:16:45 Chris L.

All Salvation Army.

00:16:47 Andy Miller III

It's true, yeah, yeah.

00:16:47 Chris L.

Coincidentally, this was very influential in my own development.

00:16:52 Chris L.

Because I was looking for something that could help me and I came across this written in 1980. This was like yeah, well it wasn't.

00:16:59 Andy Miller III

Great year to be born by the way, yeah.

00:17:01 Chris L.

Oh man, I don't know.

00:17:02 Chris L.

I was 16 at the time, but my copy I I loaned it to a student who left it in their trunk and it flooded and it was actually floating in their trust.

00:17:10 Andy Miller III

His show trip show the camera there like.

00:17:12 Chris L.

Yeah, it's it's a little messy in here.

00:17:14 Chris L.

It's a it's a little it's got even some pieces of some kind of stuff stuck to it.

00:17:19 Chris L.

I don't know. Anyway it says I bought this at the Christian Holiness Association. 1990 is when I got it. So you were only 10 years old then man yeah yeah. But yeah, great essays.

00:17:25 Andy Miller III

OK, interesting.

00:17:28 Andy Miller III

That's right, that's true, let's see.

00:17:32 Chris L.

And again, it's some great Salvation Army guys, you know a couple of booths are in here in, in some others great essays on holiness.

00:17:42 Chris L.

Various aspects, I really suggest anybody who wants to learn about holiness.

00:17:46 Chris L.

They need to read this.

00:17:46 Andy Miller III

OK, interesting, now it's interesting as I I put together my top five and you put together your top five.

00:17:47 Chris L.

Yeah, it's it's that important.

00:17:53 Andy Miller III

I was a little embarrassed that you included this and I didn't.

00:17:56 Chris L.

Oh well, there you go.

00:17:56 Andy Miller III

So there you go.

00:17:56 Andy Miller III

It's a really good book.

00:17:57 Andy Miller III

John Waldron.

00:17:58 Andy Miller III

He was somebody who.

00:18:00 Andy Miller III

Prop brought together a lot of different resources and often had these compilations, and this is one of the great ones, so he probably probably 8 to 10 of these compilations.

00:18:08 Andy Miller III

Someone scriptures, someone preaching become the and the title itself I think is helpful. This comes from the Salvation Army's article of faith, the Salvation Army's tenth article of Faith that says we believe it is a privilege of all believers.

00:18:20 Andy Miller III

To be wholly sanctified now, just in that concept there you see, and it goes on.

00:18:24 Andy Miller III

Little bit longer, but the idea there is that we don't.

00:18:28 Andy Miller III

We aren't just saved, you know just to experience forgiveness, but we're saved to something that we have the opportunity to experience.

00:18:30 Chris L.


00:18:34 Andy Miller III

God saying, this is the privilege that we have as believers have the work of the Holy Spirit sanctifying us, OK?

00:18:40 Speaker 1

I like privilege, all believers.

00:18:43 Andy Miller III

Now we're getting down #3 we're throwing in doctor Dennis Kinlaw.

00:18:48 Andy Miller III

Now this is a tough one.

00:18:49 Andy Miller III

I thought about just bringing all these books up because they all.

00:18:51 Andy Miller III

Kind of deal with the same depth of stuff.

00:18:52 Chris L.

Mind of Christ.

00:18:53 Andy Miller III

Right, right, I was preaching despair that would have been a good one, but I think that let's start with Jesus.

00:18:54 Chris L.

Spirit, yeah.

00:18:59 Andy Miller III

Probably is the book that best summarizes his theology as a whole, and he has a last couple of chapters really trying to lay out a biblical case for the doctor.

00:19:10 Andy Miller III

Of entire sanctification and, and this is the prologue.

00:19:14 Andy Miller III

AMA, how do you say that word per ligament programming, given given OK to something that's coming out eventually?

00:19:17 Chris L.

Yep, yeah.

00:19:17 Andy Miller III

Come on now.

00:19:20 Andy Miller III

Given a yeah, OK, that's going to be coming out like a more systematic theology, but this lays that out by saying let's look to Jesus.

00:19:30 Andy Miller III

Let's look to the person of Jesus and how he demonstrates us who God is, and so that's the way that they approach theology as a whole.

00:19:37 Andy Miller III

Will you have anything?

00:19:38 Andy Miller III

You want to say about.

00:19:38 Chris L.

This book not about this book, but I'll say.

00:19:41 Chris L.

That in it was.

00:19:44 Chris L.

And of Christ, yeah.

00:19:46 Chris L.

I had I used to have my students write a report on that back, went to college and this one lady wrote a report and she said the book is really good except it falls apart in the end mount of Christ.

00:19:58 Chris L.

It doesn't come down to a solution, so I told him that now this is interesting because you know you get critiques.

00:20:05 Chris L.

When you write something like this, you know, and it's hard to take sometimes, but I.

00:20:09 Chris L.

So I said I have this lady who wrote this critique of your book and she said in the end it falls apart and it doesn't come to it.

00:20:16 Chris L.

And he said, I absolutely agree.

00:20:19 Chris L.

He said.

00:20:19 Chris L.

Actually, it was at one time more, but they wanted me to take it down.

00:20:24 Chris L.

And so I did, he said, looking at it, he said she is right.

00:20:27 Chris L.

I don't come to this.

00:20:30 Chris L.

There's just a definite point.

00:20:31 Chris L.

It should come to, but it doesn't, and he said, I agree with her at such times.

00:20:34 Andy Miller III

Wow, interesting.

00:20:35 Chris L.

It's interesting, you know.

00:20:36 Andy Miller III

Well I loved his humility in those areas too and so like and and I got to spend some time with Doctor Kinlaw and you might not actually find his books to be like.

00:20:37 Andy Miller III

Oh yeah.

00:20:44 Andy Miller III

OK, let's say like some of these books that might seem like a how to like hold everyday people like 25.

00:20:48 Andy Miller III

Ways to be hold out?

00:20:49 Andy Miller III

But it's like the foundation behind all they does when he looks at the Trinity when he looks at how God has revealed himself as father, son, Holy Spirit, 3 persons existing in a loving relationship for all time.

00:21:00 Andy Miller III

When he does that, like he, he draws out the implications of what that means for us to share, that that somehow we enter into the fellowship the Trinity.

00:21:08 Andy Miller III

And then looking at the person of Jesus and how Scripture points in all these directions about Old Testament image imagery.

00:21:14 Andy Miller III

So I find like even books like Doctor Kinlaw's lectures in Old Testament theology, well that's a three 400 page book on on holiness and it I I love it. So we I I have to just throw down Doctor Dennis.

00:21:23 Speaker 1


00:21:26 Chris L.

He he exuded that in his own life, yeah.

00:21:27 Andy Miller III

Came on there.

00:21:28 Andy Miller III

Yes, OK coming down now.

00:21:32 Andy Miller III

Pull up

00:21:32 Andy Miller III

Why don't you tell us about #2? Who the author, 'cause it's the corpus as.

00:21:34 Chris L.


00:21:36 Chris L.

So that's correct.

00:21:37 Chris L.

Samuel Logan Bringle anything by Bringle is is very readable.

00:21:42 Chris L.

Bringle of course, again, one of those heroes, you know that you that happens early in my Christian life.

00:21:48 Andy Miller III

There it is.

00:21:49 Chris L.

There it is right there, everybody that's anybody has the red set like.

00:21:54 Chris L.

This yeah it's.

00:21:54 Andy Miller III

That's right, I know it's like a.

00:21:54 Chris L.

You gotta have that.

00:21:56 Andy Miller III

Status symbol almost.

00:21:56 Chris L.

It is it is we.

00:21:57 Chris L.

Do have that or not?

00:21:59 Chris L.

Bringle was a preacher.

00:22:02 Chris L.

Yeah, very very.

00:22:03 Chris L.

I I was going to say.

00:22:05 Chris L.

Capable, that's not really the word.

00:22:07 Chris L.

He when you.

00:22:07 Andy Miller III

Polished by a.

00:22:08 Chris L.

When you read about his preaching, the way he preached like he would do conversations, yeah in his sermons and stuff, but really like him and Paul kind of thing.

00:22:15 Chris L.

Is really interesting.

00:22:16 Chris L.

But then at some point he was injured, spent time in a hospital like nine months and was able to write.

00:22:23 Chris L.

And the books are there.

00:22:26 Chris L.

To me, they're very readable, but from an older day, you know he died in the early 1930s and car crash 34.

00:22:29 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right, right.

00:22:34 Chris L.

But you know most of his work was probably right at the turn of the century there, and he he was.

00:22:40 Chris L.

He was interesting way, he writes, and the things.

00:22:44 Chris L.

He says, but I think, and we've talked about this, that the reason I think Bringle still works today is because he didn't take some of the hard, fast kind of thoughts that come along.

00:22:55 Chris L.

For instance, one of the things in the holiness movement was the concept of eradication that what we have in US is a sin nature, a thing that has to be.

00:22:59 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right.

00:23:04 Chris L.

Taken out, rather than your nature, being cleansed of sin, sin being expelled, some people think it's some some extra nature that has to be expelled.

00:23:13 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right.

00:23:15 Chris L.

He didn't do that.

00:23:16 Andy Miller III

Yes yes yes.

00:23:16 Chris L.

His works don't take that kind of.

00:23:19 Chris L.

Uhm, that, in fact.

00:23:21 Chris L.

You could probably argue all three of the ways, yeah?

00:23:24 Andy Miller III

You could you could.

00:23:25 Chris L.

It's very interesting and yet, and yet he does come down to some real.

00:23:29 Andy Miller III

Real stuff here now and I would recommend if you want to learn more about Bringle Sialis.

00:23:32 Andy Miller III

This is the problem that in my tradition, so it's I've always been fascinated by other holiness traditions like yours.

00:23:38 Andy Miller III

I've even gone to some.

00:23:39 Andy Miller III

You know, very obscure camp meetings, and I'll find these books there, like they they love, and so that's been interesting for me then the Salvation Army.

00:23:43 Chris L.

Oh yeah.

00:23:46 Andy Miller III

People will say, well, you want to learn about WH.

00:23:48 Andy Miller III

Miss take Bringle.

00:23:50 Andy Miller III

Well, I actually say whoa.

00:23:51 Andy Miller III

Just just wait a second like this is kind of like more devotional reflections upon like Christian themes and holiness as a whole.

00:23:59 Andy Miller III

It's not a systematic presentation, so if you're interested in brangle theology, I'll refer you to Doctor David Rightmire sanctified sanity.

00:24:08 Chris L.

Oh yeah, that's good.

00:24:09 Andy Miller III

And what he shows until he brings all all these books together in letters and various articles and what he does is, he is, he puts it systematically into one presentation.

00:24:19 Andy Miller III

And what his one of his main points in that book.

00:24:22 Andy Miller III

I don't know if I say it's his thesis, but what he?

00:24:24 Andy Miller III

He says is that Brangle brought to the Salvation Army.

00:24:28 Andy Miller III

I'll move away from what we want, what we classified as the short way to an emphasis on waving in the spirit.

00:24:35 Chris L.

Which is the middle way, yeah?

00:24:35 Andy Miller III

For this fear, exactly and that like that was something that was missing in the Salvation Army tradition.

00:24:40 Andy Miller III

And this is more Wesleyan perspective that he was able to bring so.

00:24:45 Chris L.

Yeah he I.

00:24:47 Chris L.

I think these.

00:24:47 Chris L.

Books probably best read for someone who's in the process.

00:24:51 Chris L.

And needs the fire to keep moving forward and wait it.

00:24:56 Chris L.

It's like that it's not like it's a some kind of a beginning place, you know, but it is for someone who's who's there and needs some fire.

00:25:04 Chris L.

It's it is encouragement to to wait and move forward spiritually.

00:25:08 Andy Miller III

Yeah, and my my grandfather would every year kind of like have his fire ignited again by a relationship with Bringle.

00:25:15 Andy Miller III

In this sense, he would read, and this is one of my grandfathers copies of helps to holiness or the first book that Bringle put out.

00:25:21 Andy Miller III

Which by the way you know some of his books were not necessarily written.

00:25:24 Andy Miller III

As like a comprehensive argument, yeah, there sometimes just a series of articles that he wrote and he put them all together in one, but he would take this.

00:25:32 Speaker 1


00:25:33 Andy Miller III

This is the 9th edition entry had so many editions of these books, but my grandfather read them in November and December every year and I I'm really well.

00:25:41 Andy Miller III

I love how I have.

00:25:42 Andy Miller III

I have one of my treasures I found is a gift.

00:25:44 Andy Miller III

Since his book Ancient Prophets, I have this one signed by.

00:25:47 Andy Miller III

Him though.

00:25:48 Chris L.

Oh no no yeah nice.

00:25:48 Andy Miller III

It's not to me, of course.

00:25:49 Andy Miller III

Visit done.

00:25:50 Andy Miller III

But anyhow, that was those are special, so the all of Bengals books as a whole.

00:25:55 Andy Miller III

Yeah, which now you mentioned one that.

00:25:56 Andy Miller III

You've stuck into.

00:25:57 Chris L.

Come holy guest.

00:25:58 Andy Miller III

Or the holy the guests of the soul.

00:26:01 Andy Miller III

There's did you combine two of them there?

00:26:02 Chris L.

I did I it's a it's a combination.

00:26:05 Andy Miller III

Guests of the soul, I think, is it.

00:26:06 Chris L.

Yeah, guest of the soul yeah.

00:26:08 Chris L.

And then there was something that was written when they put two of them together and they called it come.

00:26:11 Andy Miller III

Oh right, there's a Bob Hostetler made a kind of.

00:26:13 Chris L.

Holy yeah yeah.

00:26:15 Andy Miller III

Took out some of the old English type of things and then, like yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.

00:26:17 Chris L.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

00:26:18 Chris L.

Yeah, but this.

00:26:19 Chris L.

The idea of the guest instead of Ghost was interesting.

00:26:20 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yes.

00:26:23 Chris L.

When I I remember reading that early on in my holy guest, I think is that he might even call him that.

00:26:29 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yeah.

00:26:30 Andy Miller III

So he, he says that the Anglo-Saxon word.

00:26:32 Chris L.

For Ghost yeah yeah.

00:26:33 Andy Miller III

Could also be guest and so then he goes in and he says like we think of the Holy Spirit as the guest of our soul.

00:26:39 Chris L.

And that really, that really had an impact on me because of that concept, I'd never really considered it.

00:26:46 Chris L.

In that way, before until that.

00:26:49 Andy Miller III

Yeah, and said I taught this in.

00:26:51 Andy Miller III

I talk systematic theology course in Mexico and it's a class where we talk about the way of salvation and the doctor in the Holy Spirit.

00:26:57 Andy Miller III

And I tried.

00:26:58 Andy Miller III

I used the guest of the soul idea, but.

00:27:00 Andy Miller III

You know they don't have trouble in Spanish 'cause they don't have the challenge of the.

00:27:05 Andy Miller III

Most, they don't use the word ghost or you were a guest, and so I I had this whole great presentation and emotional moment.

00:27:10 Andy Miller III

It didn't work.

00:27:11 Andy Miller III

And then the translator looked even said.

00:27:13 Andy Miller III

Not gonna work in Spanish.

00:27:14 Andy Miller III

'cause I felt it felt kind of badly. OK, we made it #1.

00:27:17 Andy Miller III

Now before I get the number one, I want you to know that I have a free resource available for people that if you sign up for my email, let's say Andy Miller.

00:27:25 Andy Miller III

The third com that's Andy Miller IE com.

00:27:28 Andy Miller III

There's a tab where you can sign up for my email list.

00:27:30 Andy Miller III

I will send you a free resource, a four page document that is meant for teachers and preachers to move through the exegetica process with the aim of creatively preaching and teaching.

00:27:41 Andy Miller III

So like, how do you actually like?

00:27:42 Andy Miller III

Like what do you do between those phases of of studying a passage and then actually preparing a sermon or preparing a teaching lesson?

00:27:50 Andy Miller III

How do you do that in a way that connects to your students or the people that you're called to serve?

00:27:54 Andy Miller III

So just encourage you if you want that resource, you can sign up for my email list.

00:27:57 Andy Miller III

I'd love to have you there.

00:27:58 Andy Miller III

And now we've made it.

00:28:00 Andy Miller III

For the dramatic moment the.

00:28:01 Andy Miller III

Reveal the number one book from the holiest tradition.

00:28:07 Andy Miller III

You won't tell.

00:28:07 Chris L.

Us it I thought you're gonna say can I give a drumroll yeah?

00:28:10 Andy Miller III

I'll drumroll Java John Wesley's sermon the scripture way of salvation and as a placeholder I have a plane at crown of Christian for perfection, which we recommend as well, but it's not a book. We're recommending a sermon. Why are we doing that, Chris?

00:28:19 Chris L.

Yeah, there you go.

00:28:21 Chris L.

Yeah, yeah.

00:28:23 Chris L.

Yeah, yeah, I think that sermon is Wesley's best.

00:28:30 Chris L.

Uh, clearest?

00:28:33 Chris L.

Description and teaching on sanctification.

00:28:36 Chris L.

What it is and how to receive it.

00:28:38 Andy Miller III


00:28:39 Chris L.

That's his clearest work on it.

00:28:41 Chris L.

If that's all he had written.

00:28:42 Andy Miller III

And not just sanctification though too.

00:28:43 Speaker 1

He would not no no.

00:28:44 Andy Miller III

Like I mean it's like the order of salvation as a whole like this.

00:28:44 Chris L.

No, it's not.

00:28:47 Andy Miller III

This outlines all of it and and I think like people if we were to find it, and even that quote love excluding or love eliminating sin, that that comes from that sermon.

00:28:56 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yeah, so.

00:28:57 Andy Miller III

So tell us about some of the kind of key highlights from that sermon.

00:29:01 Chris L.

OK, so yeah he does.

00:29:03 Chris L.

He distinguishes there's probably two or three things that happened.

00:29:06 Chris L.

Very important, he distinguishes in it between justification and regeneration, but he also says that when you have initial salvation when when God does so in justification doesn't work for you, regeneration or work in you.

00:29:11 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right.

00:29:21 Andy Miller III

A new

00:29:21 Chris L.

But when he does that work in you, you are transformed and that's what he calls.

00:29:27 Chris L.

Initial sanctification, right?

00:29:30 Chris L.

When you are justified, you are sanctified now.

00:29:34 Chris L.

Then he says, and this is important.

00:29:36 Chris L.

When a person is born again and they think they're done with the sin business, it doesn't take long until they realize, hey.

00:29:43 Chris L.

Something is not right.

00:29:44 Chris L.

They come to understand that within themselves, maybe not on the outward part 'cause he thinks you know if you're born again, you are victorious.

00:29:51 Chris L.

You're not going to be living in sin, but you're going to come to some.

00:29:55 Chris L.

I call them brick walls in your own life.

00:29:57 Chris L.

Certain attitudes of the soul which you know.

00:30:02 Chris L.

Are not transformed and the reason for that is because you have all the Holy Spirit, but he doesn't have all of you.

00:30:09 Chris L.

And So what Wesley says secondly.

00:30:12 Chris L.

Is he says then the gradual work of sanctification begins and see a lot of times the holiness movement.

00:30:19 Chris L.

If you talk about gradual sanctification, people get nervous.

00:30:21 Andy Miller III

Your heretic.

00:30:22 Chris L.

Yeah, 'cause they think we're talking about progressive like it's always just kind of growing but never doing.

00:30:24 Andy Miller III

Right, right, right.

00:30:27 Chris L.

But that's not what Wesley saying before between the initial sanctification.

00:30:33 Chris L.

When you receive the spirit and entire sanctification when he has all of you and he is cleansing all of you between that.

00:30:40 Chris L.

There is this process of taking up your cross and that's what it is.

00:30:44 Andy Miller III

Dying to self.

00:30:45 Chris L.

Take up the cross data self and and he says the and this is an important statement for me.

00:30:50 Chris L.

The more dead to sin you are, the more alive to God you are, so the court.

00:30:55 Chris L.

There's a correlation between your relationship with sin and your relationship with.

00:30:58 Chris L.

God and.

00:31:00 Chris L.

As you died to sin.

00:31:01 Chris L.

Then you will find the life of God more fully at work in you.

00:31:06 Chris L.

So while you have all the spirit, he's unlocking those doors in your life and you're you're unlocking the doors and letting him in.

00:31:13 Chris L.

You're giving him access to every part of who you are, and that's what Wesley was thinking when he was thinking about entirely sanctified.

00:31:22 Chris L.

That is, all of you is being sanctified, so you've now allowed this spirit into all of who you are.

00:31:24 Andy Miller III


00:31:30 Chris L.

It doesn't mean that you're done, it means it's about the depth, not the doneness, and so he lays that out in this sermon.

00:31:32 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:31:39 Chris L.

And then of course he also lays out.

00:31:40 Chris L.

How do you wait for it?

00:31:42 Chris L.

What do you do?

00:31:42 Chris L.

And that's where he says works of piety.

00:31:44 Chris L.

Works of.

00:31:45 Chris L.

Mercy and I think as I look at it, this is my.

00:31:45 Andy Miller III


00:31:48 Chris L.

Own opinion on it.

00:31:50 Chris L.

Why would those two things be necessary?

00:31:52 Chris L.

And here's what I think if the problem is that our soul is turned inward right for satisfaction, so the self centeredness and all that.

00:32:01 Chris L.

Sinfulness how do you get the soul to become outward again?

00:32:06 Chris L.

And so as you practice works of piety, you're reading the scripture, you're studying it, you're praying, worship all that stuff.

00:32:13 Andy Miller III

Tending sacraments.

00:32:16 Chris L.

You're looking to God in all that right?

00:32:17 Chris L.

And that's opening you up.

00:32:19 Chris L.

See and then as you are serving.

00:32:21 Chris L.

Others 'cause works of mercy is anything you would do for the body or souls of men.

00:32:25 Chris L.

Everything from feeding them.

00:32:27 Chris L.

Agree to teaching as he calls it the the stupid senseless center.

00:32:31 Chris L.

Everything you do for somebody else.

00:32:33 Chris L.

It's about reaching outside yourself, right?

00:32:35 Chris L.

So as you're reaching up to God and out to others, you're wide open to what I've got, and that's where he works.

00:32:41 Chris L.

That's where the rubber meets the road.

00:32:42 Chris L.

That's where the sparks.

00:32:43 Chris L.

Happen is when you.

00:32:45 Chris L.

Do that.

00:32:46 Chris L.

He's able to speak.

00:32:47 Chris L.

To you, and that's where it happened.

00:32:47 Andy Miller III

Yeah, awesome.

00:32:49 Chris L.

So you're fully there.

00:32:51 Chris L.

You're totally open to him, and that is how you wait.

00:32:55 Chris L.

And then of course, he says in there.

00:32:57 Chris L.

By the way, you can have it now, yeah, and.

00:32:58 Andy Miller III

Seek it now seek that type of.

00:33:01 Andy Miller III

Not like not that's not like.

00:33:03 Andy Miller III

Enter into the Phoebe Palmer language.

00:33:04 Andy Miller III

There is a this is like seek that type of spirit right now where you are giving all that.

00:33:10 Andy Miller III

You are right at this time and then you are opening yourself up correct in service.

00:33:15 Chris L.

And so to that person, he says, is it gradual or instantaneous?

00:33:19 Chris L.

And I think some people misunderstand that they think.

00:33:21 Chris L.

They think all the way back you're born again.

00:33:24 Chris L.

Now you can be entirely sanctified instantaneously.

00:33:27 Chris L.

That's not what he says he's talking about when you know sin is gone, is that gradual or instantaneous, and that's talking to the person who's waiting.

00:33:35 Chris L.

Dead to self.

00:33:36 Chris L.

Trusting in God and then, he says, sometimes it's gradual and you can't point to a day in time, but it's happened, but sometimes it's instantaneous and you know.

00:33:40 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yeah.

00:33:43 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:33:46 Chris L.

Oh yeah, yesterday I experienced this thing but he lays out exactly how to get there in the fact that you have to trust God for it and wait for it and and and believe him for it.

00:33:56 Chris L.

And apply it to.

00:33:57 Andy Miller III

Your life one things that we do here.

00:33:58 Andy Miller III

Westin Biblical Seminary that we instituted.

00:34:00 Andy Miller III

Like the faculty.

00:34:01 Andy Miller III

The fact what we call faculty assembly decided that we wanted to have a moment in every course.

00:34:07 Andy Miller III

Where a teacher takes time to lay out what you just said in somewhere and then their own experience with that, even if that leads not to a place where you say there was this minute where I did this right?

00:34:19 Andy Miller III

But this process where God Holy Spirit is at work in us, freeing us from the power of sin and giving us an opportunity.

00:34:27 Andy Miller III

To breathe in, breathe out as we experience what God wants for us and who he's calling.

00:34:31 Andy Miller III

Us to be.

00:34:32 Andy Miller III

So like we, we tried to have those moments and what would you say somebody right?

00:34:35 Andy Miller III

Now, like who's saying?

00:34:36 Andy Miller III

Ah, I'm not sure Chris do I have that?

00:34:38 Andy Miller III

Should I do that?

00:34:39 Andy Miller III

What what?

00:34:40 Andy Miller III

What, what should I seek right now?

00:34:41 Andy Miller III

What should I do?

00:34:42 Chris L.

Well, if you're Christian and you're not sure that you are entirely sanctified that God, God is sanctifying you in every part of who you are, then I, as I often do, I suggest people take a look at your life and ask you this question.

00:34:57 Chris L.

Ask yourself this question, what part of me is not?

00:35:02 Chris L.

Open to God, what's not?

00:35:05 Chris L.

I guarantee you the door that's still shut is the place that's not redeemed.

00:35:09 Chris L.

You know he can only he only said can he only redeems what you give him?

00:35:09 Andy Miller III

Right, right?

00:35:14 Chris L.

Yeah, and so I think you should maybe on A and this shouldn't be a weird thing, but maybe on a regular basis.

00:35:19 Chris L.

Just ask yourself is there some part of my life?

00:35:22 Chris L.

That's not open to his sanctifying touch, and you'll find those things if you ask yourself that on regular basis, you will find it you'll be going through life and.

00:35:23 Andy Miller III

Yeah, yeah.

00:35:30 Chris L.

Also, you saying, oh?

00:35:33 Chris L.

There's a place that's not open.

00:35:34 Chris L.

And so I say, open that door.

00:35:36 Chris L.

Ask yourself why begin to deal with who you are and then trust God for it.

00:35:41 Chris L.

Because the reality is sometimes you can believe in your head.

00:35:46 Chris L.

But not rest in your heart.

00:35:49 Chris L.

And it's just like sitting down.

00:35:50 Chris L.

Always say you can say, I know this chair will help me and I know it can hold me.

00:35:54 Chris L.

But you got to stop standing at some point and in your own life.

00:35:55 Andy Miller III

Wow, wow.

00:35:57 Chris L.

Maybe you just.

00:35:58 Chris L.

Need to stop standing.

00:35:58 Andy Miller III

Yeah, you know when you talk about the opening up all that you are to God like is there any area of your life you're holding back?

00:36:05 Andy Miller III

10 tenants.

00:36:05 Andy Miller III

Book called holiness. He has a definition of sin that I found really helpful and it's very similar. He says sin is any area of our life where we reject God's presence. Any area of our life where we reject the presence of God.

00:36:17 Chris L.

Present and you know, sometimes you don't do that like openly you.

00:36:20 Chris L.

You don't just say you know what I don't.

00:36:21 Chris L.

Want God grace there, but you do.

00:36:23 Chris L.

Do it in the in the way you live and the the fact is the walls that we have built in our lives to protect ourselves from other people.

00:36:31 Chris L.

Protect us from God, so to speak, and they also keep us in too.

00:36:36 Chris L.

But but yeah, we we've built walls around various parts of our life for protection.

00:36:41 Chris L.

For for security.

00:36:44 Chris L.

We oftentimes not only don't let people in there, but we don't let God in there.

00:36:48 Chris L.

It's very hard to look at those places, but that's what we have to do.

00:36:51 Andy Miller III

Wow, well thank you so much for coming and joining me on this. So our top top one is not just John Wesley's applying crop for Christian perfection or all of his sermons, but we're saying a scripture way of salvation.

00:37:02 Andy Miller III

If you want to learn about holiness, that's the number one book.

00:37:05 Andy Miller III

So thanks so much for joining me, Chris.

00:37:06 Speaker 1

Thanks yeah.

00:37:06 Andy Miller III

It's been a great treat to have you here.

00:37:07 Andy Miller III

Thank you for coming to Morton Story podcast.

00:37:09 Andy Miller III

We trust you'll take this.

00:37:11 Andy Miller III

Maybe you could.

00:37:11 Andy Miller III

Send a link to this share.

00:37:13 Andy Miller III

It maybe text it there somebody send an email like this.

00:37:15 Andy Miller III

Make a comment that would help us out as we spread this message because I believe that God wants to sanctify you through and through God.

00:37:22 Andy Miller III

Bless you.

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